Kg51 "edelweiss" the complete history of kg 51 in world war ii".
Hi,
can anyone tell me if the book mentions Me410 intruders of KG51 operating over the UK during April 1944. In particular any information or photos of Lt Wolfgang Wenning or Fw Gustav Delp? Regards, Mike H mharrison4@ntlworld.com |
Re: Kg51 "edelweiss" the complete history of kg 51 in world war ii".
Unless the text has been expanded since the Ian Allan version of the 1970's then no, it wouldn't have much to say about intruder operations, nor about III./KG 51's operations on the Fw 190 from June to November 1944.
Simon Parry's "Intruders Over Britain" may be of more help to you though. |
Re: Kg51 "edelweiss" the complete history of kg 51 in world war ii".
Dierich's book mentions on pages 222 and 223 the missions to the UK with ME410 from I./51. Stationed in St Andree they flew regular missions to UK. A more detailed report dates March 24. The squadron re-located to Germany in June 44. No mentions of the said personnel
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Re: Kg51 "edelweiss" the complete history of kg 51 in world war ii".
page 286:
Lt Wolfgang Wenning killed 27.4.44 in England, 6.Staffel That's all, no more |
Re: Kg51 "edelweiss" the complete history of kg 51 in world war ii".
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Re: Kg51 "edelweiss" the complete history of kg 51 in world war ii".
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I am quoting from the book. If you do not trust the authors or these kind of informations, please do not ask for look-ups. |
Re: Kg51 "edelweiss" the complete history of kg 51 in world war ii".
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Re: Kg51 "edelweiss" the complete history of kg 51 in world war ii".
I do not know the Schiffer book. I am refering to the book quoted as in post#3
Wolfgang Dierich Kampfgeschwader 51 "Edelweiß" Eine Chronik aus Dokumenten und Berichten 1937-1945 Motorbuch Verlag 1973 |
Re: Kg51 "edelweiss" the complete history of kg 51 in world war ii".
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Re: Kg51 "edelweiss" the complete history of kg 51 in world war ii".
As I do not know the Schiffer published book on KG 51and understanding it is an enhanced version of the Motorbuch publishers would you/somebody with access please have a look at this thread and check for ANY more information in the updated English language version ?
I do not want to hijack this thread so possible answers please on the respective thread here |
Re: Kg51 "edelweiss" the complete history of kg 51 in world war ii".
Ian McLachlan and Russel Zorn's Eighth Air Force Bomber Stories describes an attack near Mendelsham Air Base Suffolk on June 7, 1944 by KG51 taking down four B-24s as they approached the base following a mission. Mentioned in the story is the April 22, 1944 attack in which 14 Liberators were destroyed by KG51. No mention of Luftwaffe pilots names.
Tony |
Re: Kg51 "edelweiss" the complete history of kg 51 in world war ii".
There is a possibility that additional editions contained updated information. See here:
http://translate.google.com/translat...51&prev=search Note the References at the bottom of the page. Ed |
Re: Kg51 "edelweiss" the complete history of kg 51 in world war ii".
Me 410A-1, 420445, Wenning, Ltn. Wolfgang, , II., Stab II., KG 51, , 9K+ZP, , , 27-Apr-44, Crew KIA due to collision with an Oxford of No. 18 (P) AFU., Stab KG 51 per 'The Blitz, T&N'. 7 aerial claims?, Kanal, The Blitz, Then & Now, III, p.366; Goss via TOCH on 1-Jan-12, , Manor Farm, Frankton, bei Rugby, 100%, F, Bf Fw. Gustav Delp, ,
The Dierich book has been re-published a few times, though I doubt it's ever been updated. Unfortunately it's far from a complete history of the unit. |
Re: Kg51 "edelweiss" the complete history of kg 51 in world war ii".
Claims I have for KG 51 from various sources, starting with Tony Woods transcribed claims from German claims documents -
Date, Rank, Fname, Lname, Gruppe, Staffel, JG, Claimed, Location, Time, ClaimNo, Unit_Cl, RLM, Prim_Source, Conf_No, Sec_Source, Notes 24-May-40, , , n.n., III., 8., KG 51, franz.Jäger, Raum Issoudun, 09.50±, ., -, yes, Gillet, , , A/C Estan from Avord airfield defense patrol 19-Aug-40, Ltn.Dr., , Stahl, I., 1., KG 51, Spitfire, 25km nordöstlich Portsmouth: 2300m, 15.40, ., -, yes, C.2035/II, Anerk: Nr. -, OKL, 30-Sep-40, Uffz., , Schlig (Bs), I., 1., KG 51, Spitfire, 15km südlich Insel Wight: 3000m, 17.03, ., -, yes, C.2035/II, Anerk: ASM, OKL, 19-Apr-42, Uffz., , Heurig, I., 2., KG 51, I-15, 10km westlich Tuapse: 2000m, 14.55, ., -, yes, C.2034, Anerk: Nr. 5, , 23-Apr-42, Fw., , Laube, I., 3., KG 51, I-17, Noworossijsk: 2500m, 12.27, ., -, yes, C.2034, Anerk: Nr. 4, , 28-Apr-42, Ofw., , Göuls, I., 1., KG 51, I-16 Rata, Hafen Nowossiye: 2200m, 15.30, ., -, yes, C.2034, Anerk: Nr. -, , 28-Apr-42, Fw., , Wolf, I., 1., KG 51, I-15, Hafen Nowossiye: 2500m, 15.30, ., -, yes, C.2034, Anerk: Nr. 13, , 22-May-42, Fw., , Wolf, I., 1., KG 51, I-17, Szamnizy: 1500m, 13.50, ., -, yes, C.2034, Anerk: Nr. 14, , 20-Aug-42, Uffz., , Buge, I., 2., KG 51, MiG-1, Bekietowkaja: 1500m, 11.00, ., -, yes, C.2032/II, VNE: ASM, , 04-Sep-42, Fw., , Schollenbruck, I., 1., KG 51, I-15, Südrand Stalingrad: 1000m, 11.15, ., -, yes, C.2032/II, Anerk: Nr. 12, , 17-Dec-42, Uffz., , Knoll, I., 2., KG 51, I-61, 12-15km nördlich Porgutschew: 2500m, 09.10, ., -, yes, C.2035/I, Anerk: Nr. 4, , 31-Mar-44, Oberstltn., Wolf-Dietrich, Meister, II., Stab II., KG 51, Fortress II, östlich Cambridge: 300m, 04.33, 4., -, yes, C.2025/I, VNE: ASM, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.162; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.I, p.394, 12 Sq. Lancaster LM509 - damaged. Stab/KG 51 per Boiten. 12-Apr-44, Ltn., Wolfgang, Wenning, II., Stab II., KG 51, Fortress II, nördlich Ipswich: 300m, 00.42, 1., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 1, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.166; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.14, 96BG/413BS B-17G 42-97556. 12-Apr-44, Hptm., Dietrich, Puttfarken, II., 5., KG 51, Spitfire, PlQu. 13 52/05 Ost: 800m [bei Fl.Pl. Coltishall], 00.50, 1., -, yes, C.2027/I, VNE:ASM, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.166; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.14, 64 Sq. BL581. 12-Apr-44, Hptm., Dietrich, Puttfarken, II., 5., KG 51, Halifax, PlQu. 14 82/05 Ost: Tiefflug [bei Lincoln], 01.25, 2., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. -, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.166; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.14, 1654 CU Stirling LJ450. 19-Apr-44, Oblt., Klaus, Bieber, II., 5., KG 51, Lancaster, Cambridge, 02.25, 1., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 3, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.167; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.15, 115 Sq. LL667 or 625 Sq. ME734. Oblt. Claus Breissner per FMP, and claim? 19-Apr-44, Hptm., Dietrich, Puttfarken, II., 5., KG 51, Lancaster, PlQu. 03 30/05 Ost: [1-30km südlich King's Lynn], 02.25, 3., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 2, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.167; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.15, 115 Sq. LL667 or 625 Sq. ME734. 19-Apr-44, Ltn., Wolfgang, Wenning, II., Stab II., KG 51, Halifax, nordwestlich Hull, 03.47, 2., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 2, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.167; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.15, 115 Sq. Lancaster LL867. 21-Apr-44, Ltn., Wolfgang, Wenning, II., Stab II., KG 51, P-47, nördlich Cambridge, 05.10, 3., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 1, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.167; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.17, 7(P) AFU Magister II. Claimed by Bs Fw. Gustav Delp. 22-Apr-44, Hptm., Dietrich, Puttfarken, II., 5., KG 51, Halifax, England, -, 4., -, yes, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 168, , , 22-Apr-44, Hptm., Dietrich, Puttfarken, II., 5., KG 51, Halifax, England, -, 5., -, yes, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45 f. 168, , , 22-Apr-44, Fw., Johann, Trenke, II., 6., KG 51, Fortress II, PlQu. 05 Ost E / 18 84: [See, 120 oder 170km südöstlich Peterhead], 22.04, 1., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 2, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.168; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.20, 2nd BD B-24, unidentified. 22-Apr-44, Ltn., Wolfgang, Wenning, II., Stab II., KG 51, Halifax, PlQu. 13 68/05 Ost E: [See, 1-10km westlich-südlich Southwold], 22.05, 4., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 3, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.168; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.20, 2nd BD B-24, unidentified. 22-Apr-44, Uffz., , Beier, II., 6., KG 51, Halifax II, PlQu. 13 84/05 Ost E: [Küste bei oder südlich Aldeburgh], 22.10, 1., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 4, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.168; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.20, 2nd BD B-24, unidentified. Or Uffz. Baier per Boiten. 22-Apr-44, Fw., Johann, Trenke, II., 6., KG 51, Halifax, PlQu. 05 Ost E / 13 84: [Küste bei oder südlich Aldeburgh], 22.10, 2., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 4, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.168; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.20, 2nd BD B-24, unidentified. 22-Apr-44, Hptm., Werner, Düro, II., 4., KG 51, unbekannt, PlQu. 13 77/05 Ost E: [westsüdwestlich Rand Ipswich], 22.14, 1., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 1, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.168; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.20, 2nd BD B-24, unidentified. 22-Apr-44, Uffz., Gustav, Delp (Bs), II., 6., KG 51, Halifax, südlich Norwich, 22.15, 5., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 5, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.168; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.20, Bs to Ltn. Wolfgang Wenning. 2nd BD B-24, unidentified. Bs to Ltn. Wenning from Stab II./KG 51? 22-Apr-44, Fw., Johann, Trenke, II., 6., KG 51, Halifax, PlQu. 05 Ost E / 13 85: [See, 10-20km ostsüdöstlich Aldeburgh], 22.16, 3., -, yes, C.2027/I, VNE:ASM, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.168; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.20, 2nd BD B-24, unidentified. 22-Apr-44, Uffz., , Beier, II., 6., KG 51, Halifax II, PlQu. 13 76: [Fl.Pl. Woodbridge, nordöstlich Ipswich], 22.22, 2., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 6, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.168; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.20, 2nd BD B-24, unidentified. Or Uffz. Baier per Boiten. 22-Apr-44, Ltn., Uwe, Laas, II., 5., KG 51, Halifax, PlQu. 13 71/05 Ost E: [0-10km östlich Newmarket, östlich Ipswich], 22.26, 1., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 4, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.168; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.20, At 22.46 per claim? 22-Apr-44, Uffz., , Beier, II., 6., KG 51, Halifax II, westlich Orfordness:, 22.26, 3., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 7, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.168; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.20, 2nd BD B-24, unidentified. At 22.46 per claim? 23-Apr-44, Uffz., , Bongert, II., 4., KG 51, Halifax, PlQu. 13 38/05 Ost: [5-15km südlich-südwestlich Norwich, Fl.Pl. Hethel], 03.35, 1., -, yes, C.2027/I, VNE:ASM, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.169; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.21, poss. 389BG/565BS B-24J 44-40085. 25-Apr-44, Uffz., , Beier, II., 6., KG 51, Halifax, PlQu. 13 57/05 Ost: [5-15km südlich Diss], 03.58, 4., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 8, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.170; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.25, 626 Sq. Lancaster DV177. 25-Apr-44, Ltn., Wolfgang, Wenning, II., Stab II., KG 51, Halifax, 20km nordöstlich Cambridge: 1000m, 04.22, 5., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 87, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.170; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.25, 76 Sq. LK789. 27-Apr-44, Fw., Johann, Trenke, II., 6., KG 51, unbekannt, PlQu. 05 Ost / 03 56: [1-8km westlich Fl.Pl. Mildenhall], 04.25, 4., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 9, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.171; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.30, unidentified. 28-Apr-44, Uffz., Artur, Döhler, II., 5., KG 51, 4-mot. Flzg., PlQu. 242/15 Ost N: [Raum Cambridge], 04.15, 1., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 5, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.172; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.34, 07-May-44, Oblt., , Czerwinski, I., Stab I., KG 51, Halifax, südsüdwestlich La Prisière: 2000m, 02.27, 1., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 4, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.174; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.42, 156 Sq. Lancaster ND449. südwestlich La Ferrière per Boiten. 08-May-44, Oblt., , Czerwinski, I., 1., KG 51, Halifax, 25km nordwestlich Tours: 3000m, 03.02, 2., -, yes, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 11, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.175; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.43, 138 Sq. LL280. 12-May-44, Uffz., Walter, Breugel, II., 4., KG 51, 4-mot. Flzg., Bredstedt: 100m, 02.38, 1., -, noch, C.2027/I, Anerk: Nr. 2, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.176; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.47, unidentified. 2./KG 51? 22-May-44, Uffz., , Beier, II., 6., KG 51, B-24, PlQu. 03 65/05 Ost S: 600m [1-10km nördlich-nordöstlich Bury St. Edmunds], 02.51, 5., -, yes, C.2027/II, Anerk: Nr. 11, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.178; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.52, poss. 619 Sq. Lancaster NN965. 22-May-44, Uffz., , Beier, II., 6., KG 51, B-24, PlQu. 03 67/05 Ost S: 50m [3-13km westlich-nordwestlich Bury St. Edmunds], 02.56, 6., -, yes, C.2027/II, VNE:ASM, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.178; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.52, 22-May-44, Fw., Johann, Trenke, II., 6., KG 51, Lancaster, PlQu. 05 Ost S / 04 89: 1200m [3-13km nördlich-nordwestlich Blakeney Point], 03.05, 5., -, yes, C.2027/II, Anerk: Nr. 12, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.178; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.52, unidentified. 22-May-44, Fw., Johann, Trenke, II., 6., KG 51, Lancaster, PlQu. 05 Ost S / 03 17/05 Ost S: 800m [15-25km westnordwestlich King's Lynn], 03.14, 6., -, yes, C.2027/II, Anerk: Nr. 13, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.178; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.52, poss. 619 Sq. NN965. 22-May-44, Fw., Johann, Trenke, II., 6., KG 51, Lancaster, PlQu. 05 Ost E / 03 24/ZZ: 800m [10-20km nordöstlich King's Lynn], 03.22, 7., -, yes, C.2027/II, VNE:ASM, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.178; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.52, 29-May-44, Fw., Ernst, Dietrich, II., 6., KG 51, Stirling, PlQu. EC 2/05 Ost S: 300m [Norfolk], 02.40, 1., -, yes, C.2027/II, Anerk: Nr. 10, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.181; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.61, No. 1657 CU R9298. Besätzung per claim? 13-Jun-44, Uffz., , Ottren, II., 6., KG 51, Abschuß, PlQu. 43 81zz: 200m [England], 01.25, 1., -, yes, C.2027/II, Anerk: Nr. 14, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.187; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.79, intruder claim, unidentified. Or Stab II./KG 51 per Boiten. 13-Jun-44, Fw., , Visintin, II., 5., KG 51, Halifax, PlQu. 03 78/05 Ost: 200m [Saffron Walden, südöstlich Cambridge], 03.12, 1., -, yes, C.2027/II, Anerk: Nr. 6, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.188; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.79, 17-Jun-44, Uffz., , Ottren, II., 6., KG 51, 4-mot. Flzg., PlQu. 22 25/05 Ost: 4500m [See, 70-80km nördlich Ostende], 02.00, 2., -, yes, C.2027/II, Anerk: Nr. 15, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.189; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.84, poss. 199 Sq. Stirling LJ531. 17-Jun-44, Fw., Johann, Trenke, II., 6., KG 51, 4-mot. Flzg., PlQu. 05 Ost / 121: [Themsemündung, südlich Clacton-on-Sea], 02.15, 8., -, yes, C.2027/II, Anerk: Nr. 16, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.190; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.84, unidentified. 28-Jun-44, Ltn., , Markan, II., 4., KG 51, 4-mot. Flzg., PlQu. 03 76/05 Ost S: 350m [10-20km südlich Newmarket], 02.27, 1., -, yes, C.2027/II, Anerk: Nr. 3, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.194; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.93, 90 Sq. Lancaster NE145. 28-Jun-44, Ltn., , Friedrich, II., 5., KG 51, Stirling, PlQu. 12 23/15 West S: 300m [1-12km östlich Letchworth], 02.30, 1., -, yes, C.2027/II, Anerk: Nr. 7, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.194; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.93, 801BG/850BS B-24H 42-95321. 28-Jun-44, Uffz., Franz, Wachtler, II., 4., KG 51, Lancaster, PlQu. 03 78/05 Ost S: 400m [Saffron Walden], 02.31, 1., -, yes, C.2027/II, Anerk: Nr. 4, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.194; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.93, 90 Sq. LM164 - damaged. 03-Jul-44, Fw., Johann, Trenke, II., 6., KG 51, Abschuß, PlQu. 05 Ost S / 007: 500m [~England], 00.14, 9., -, yes, C.2027/II, Anerk: Nr. 18, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.195, 06-Jul-44, Uffz., , Illner, II., 6., KG 51, 2-mot. Flzg., PlQu. UU/15 West S: 1500m [Caen], 02.38, 1., -, yes, C.2027/II, Anerk: Nr. 17, FMP, LW NF Claims 39-45, p.198; Boiten, Nachtjagd War Diaries, V.II, p.100, poss. 105 Sq. Mosquito ML913. 03-Dec-44, Ofw., , Petersen, I., 2., KG 51, B-24, zw. Weert und Venlo, 09.25, ., -, yes, C.2027/II, Anerk: Nr. -, , 05-Dec-44, Fw., , Schmidt, I., 1., KG 51, B-17, PlQu. GP 35/05 Ost: 1800m, 13.08, ., -, yes, C.2027/II, Anerk: Nr. -, , 29-Jan-45, , Hubert, Lange, I., , KG 51, P-47, zwischen Illhausen und Giebelstadt, 10.-11.00, 1., -, yes, Lange per Gaemperle, , Wehrpass signed by Adj. Oblt. Hovestadt, 02-Feb-45, , Hubert, Lange, I., , KG 51, B-24, bei Rheine, 13.-15.00, 2., -, yes, Lange per Gaemperle, , Wehrpass signed by Adj. Oblt. Hovestadt, 21-Feb-45, , Hubert, Lange, I., , KG 51, P-47, zwischen Hopsten und Kleve, 17.-18.00, 3., -, yes, Lange per Gaemperle, , Wehrpass signed by Adj. Oblt. Hovestadt, 13-Mar-45, , Hubert, Lange, I., , KG 51, P-47, zwischen Hopsten und Kleve, 14.-16.00, 4., -, yes, Lange per Gaemperle, , Wehrpass signed by Adj. Oblt. Hovestadt, 13-Mar-45, , Hubert, Lange, I., , KG 51, P-47, zwischen Hopsten und Kleve, 14.-16.00, 5., -, yes, Lange per Gaemperle, , Wehrpass signed by Adj. Oblt. Hovestadt, |
Re: Kg51 "edelweiss" the complete history of kg 51 in world war ii".
Hello,
a Photo of Lt. Wolfgang Wennig (as soldier) can be found in the book Jan Horn: Das Flurschadengeschwader. Die Chronik des Kampfgeschwaders 51 "Edelweiß" zwischen dem 1.Januar 1944 bis Kriegsende. Rüdiger |
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