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I have just obtained a sheet entitled 1./Bordflieger Gr 196 Abschussubersicht and lists the following claims:

1. 15 Aug 40 1807 hrs
2. 2 Jan 42 1455 hrs
3. 17 May 42 2008 hrs
4. 1 Jul 43 1510 hrs

Can anyone substantiate these claims before I post on the Allied Board for Allied losses? 15 Aug 40 matches well with the combat between Hptm Gerrit Wiegmink/LtzS Dieter Schlenker and 266 Sqn whilst 2 Jan 42 looks like P8722/602 Sqn which was lost attacking He 114s off Le Treport at 1400 hrs

Re: 1./196 Claims

Hi Chris

These appear on the micro films with date and time only, doesn't even give which front. However the latter should read 1st July 1941 at 1510 hrs not 1943 which would have appeared on the daily micro film entries. I also give the unit as 1./BFGr.196. I have ten similar claims for 5./BFGr.196 if your interested?

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: 1./196 Claims

Johannes
I too though it was 1941 not 1943 which puzzled me why it was out of sequence in the list. This might now refer to the loss of a 206 Sqn Hudson.
I have 9 claims by 5./196 between 21 Jun 42 and 29 Jan 43 (most with no names of the successful pilot apart from Jost, Wurm and Techam) so would be most interested to compare

Re: 1./196 Claims

Another possible for the 1 Jul 41 : Stirling N6013 MG°A no.7 Sqn
http://www.flensted.eu.com/194108.shtml

Re: 1./196 Claims

Hi Chris

In date order, again date and time only:-

17th August 1941 1030 hrs
21st June 1942 2027 hrs
10th July 1942 2059 hrs
10th July 1942 2115 hrs
12th July 1942 0810 hrs
14th July 1942 2022 hrs
3rd August 1942 0805 hrs
13th August 1942 2010 hrs
18th August 1942 1055 hrs
6th September 1942 1926 hrs

Kind Regards

Johannes

P.S

Please do indicate which are Spitfires?

Re: 1./196 Claims

Hello

According to this site, the 206 Sqn Hudson could have been shot down by a He 111 of I./KG 40 flown by Ltn Wilhelm Schmitter.

http://aufhimmelzuhause.com/id101.htm

Quote:

1 July 41
Leutnant Schmitter and his crew flying a He.111 take off at 04:14 hours from their base in Bordeaux-Merignac to undertake a long range reconnaissance and weather collecting mission into the North Atlantic. Their mission takes them into the area of the Altantic just west of Ireland before returning to their base. On their return trip Schmitter and his crew encounter a Lockheed Hudson IV of RAF Coastal Command in the vicinity of the Brest Peninsular..

The Hudson, flown by pilot officer John Bendix of 206 Squadron was flying a cross over patrol from their base in St. Eval. It would appear that Schmitter came across the Hudson and took P/O Bendix and his crew by surprise. This is reflected in the letter written to Bendix family by 206 Squadron Wing Commander who wrote "..I regret to inform you that no further news has been received of your son, nor in fact of any member of his crew, neither is there any record of any unusual wireless messages having been received from his aircraft during his last patrol. We believe that the aircraft, of which your son was captain was shot down by enemy fighters while carrying out a patrol in the vicinity of the Brest Peninsular, this would account for the lack of wireless messages since the Wireless operator would be manning a gun station at the time.." This presupposes that Bendix wireless operator/air gunner (Sgt. Smith) needed to man his weapon immediately versus relay a message of incoming hostile aircraft.. Schmitter did record this victory in his Leistungsbuch (1st victory) which would be his first of four aerial victories.(feindflug no.121)3,4

Re: 1./196 Claims

Currently away for 10 days & will reply in full then

Re: 1./196 Claims

Johannes

17th August 1941 1030 hrs- Nothing

21st June 1942 2027 hrs-Sunderland W3999/Y 10 Sqn

10th July 1942 2059 hrs- Nothing
10th July 1942 2115 hrs- Nothing

12th July 1942 0810 hrs- Whitley Z9511/O 51 Sqn by Ofw Friedrich Jost

14th July 1942 2022 hrs-Catalina AH545/119 Sqn by Hptm Werner Techam

3rd August 1942 0805 hrs-Whitley Z9119/51 Sqn

13th August 1942 2010 hrs-Nothing but I do have a possible claim by 3(F)/123

18th August 1942 1055 hrs-Wellington DV665/B of 311 Sqn by Ofw Friedrich Jost. Could have also been claimed bu Oblt Bruno Stolle of 8./JG 2 at 1108 hrs

6th September 1942 1926 hrs-Whitley Z9387/51 Sqn

I also have claims on
30 Jul 42 (Sunderland W3994/10 Sqn by Hptm Techam)
9 Aug 42 (Sunderland W4019/10 Sqn)
29 Jan 43 (Boston AL278/226 Sqn by Oblt Heinz Wurm).

In respect of the 1./196 list, 1 Jul 41 looks likely but I am a bit puzzled as I have Oblt Erich Stav being the BO and Ofw Stürtz being the FF (possibly Werner Stürtz ?). St Kap was Hptm Hans Jürgen Schmidt