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Old 27th April 2020, 14:29
HGabor HGabor is offline
Alter Hase
 
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Re: Hartmann: claims vs. victories

The October 27, 1944 events are very interesting. This day between 10:15 - 15:00 (local) 2 Yak-9D and 2 IL-2KR of 5 VA, 207 OKRAP flew recce. missions in the Csap, Nyírbátor, Vásárosnamény, Mátészalka, etc. area. In the same region, near Büdszentmihály ('Büd-St. Michael', new name: Tiszavasvári) Hptm. Helmut Lipfert claimed an IL-2 at 12:17 and a Yak-7 at 12:21, four minutes apart. This day the 5 VA, 207 OKRAP has lost 2 (Omsk, Factory No.166-built) Yak-9D and a (Factory No.1-built) IL-2KR as follows:

IL-2KR crew:
Ml.Lt. Mihail Petrovich Lanskii pilot
St.Lt. Lev Dmitrievich Sinev observer

Yak-9D:
Ml.Lt. Alexandr Mihailovich Rozhkov
Yak-9D:
St.Lt. Konstantin Vasilevich Sapevo

Their planes were not showing up in the given day's AC losses. Confusion was caused by the delay of the mechanical records. In 207 OKRAP records an IL-2KR was written-off only by November 3, 1944 and 2 additional Yak-9Ds in the November 1-15, 1944 time period as combat losses:

IL-2KR, S/N: 10948, engine: 256676 (prev. engine in April, 1944 was No.259350)
Yak-9D, S/N: 19166066, engine: 415-1037
Yak-9D, S/N: 19166078, engine: 415-90

In addition to these, at 10:36 local, the other 207 OKRAP IL-2KR, piloted by Maj. Nikolai Petrovich Zubko was attacked by 2 Bf 109s unsuccessfully.

Since between October 27, 1944 and the given other dates no more 207 OKRAP AC loss is known, therefore the listed planes were most likely lost on October 27, 1944, not later. The IL-2 connection is clear, as having a single option, but the 2 Yak-9s and their pilots at this point cannot be matched for 100%.

Erich Hartmann’s 305th (Yak-9) claim at 10:16 over Nagykálló-E (18 265) at 2500 m is still questionable. The soviet recce. planes reported many vehicles on the roads before they were lost (so they had already been in the air for awhile) and it is highly unlikely that someone could shoot down a plane at 2500 m over the target area, only 1 minute after their mission has started. (10:15 vs. 10:16). More investigation is needed.

By October 1, 1944 the 5 VA, 207 OKRAP had:

7 Yak-9D (six from Omsk, Factory No.166 and one from Novosibirsk, Factory No.153, but this one (S/N: 2115312) was already lost before October 25, 1944.)
16 IL-2KR (15 from Factory No.1 and a single one from Factory No.30, S/N: 302360, being repaired in Kirovograd by December 26, 1944.)
5 Po-2 biplanes

Gabor

Last edited by HGabor; 27th April 2020 at 16:06.
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