![]() |
|
|||||||
| Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#8
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Hartmann: claims vs. victories
The October 27, 1944 events are very interesting. This day between 10:15 - 15:00 (local) 2 Yak-9D and 2 IL-2KR of 5 VA, 207 OKRAP flew recce. missions in the Csap, Nyírbátor, Vásárosnamény, Mátészalka, etc. area. In the same region, near Büdszentmihály ('Büd-St. Michael', new name: Tiszavasvári) Hptm. Helmut Lipfert claimed an IL-2 at 12:17 and a Yak-7 at 12:21, four minutes apart. This day the 5 VA, 207 OKRAP has lost 2 (Omsk, Factory No.166-built) Yak-9D and a (Factory No.1-built) IL-2KR as follows:
IL-2KR crew: Ml.Lt. Mihail Petrovich Lanskii pilot St.Lt. Lev Dmitrievich Sinev observer Yak-9D: Ml.Lt. Alexandr Mihailovich Rozhkov Yak-9D: St.Lt. Konstantin Vasilevich Sapevo Their planes were not showing up in the given day's AC losses. Confusion was caused by the delay of the mechanical records. In 207 OKRAP records an IL-2KR was written-off only by November 3, 1944 and 2 additional Yak-9Ds in the November 1-15, 1944 time period as combat losses: IL-2KR, S/N: 10948, engine: 256676 (prev. engine in April, 1944 was No.259350) Yak-9D, S/N: 19166066, engine: 415-1037 Yak-9D, S/N: 19166078, engine: 415-90 In addition to these, at 10:36 local, the other 207 OKRAP IL-2KR, piloted by Maj. Nikolai Petrovich Zubko was attacked by 2 Bf 109s unsuccessfully. Since between October 27, 1944 and the given other dates no more 207 OKRAP AC loss is known, therefore the listed planes were most likely lost on October 27, 1944, not later. The IL-2 connection is clear, as having a single option, but the 2 Yak-9s and their pilots at this point cannot be matched for 100%. Erich Hartmann’s 305th (Yak-9) claim at 10:16 over Nagykálló-E (18 265) at 2500 m is still questionable. The soviet recce. planes reported many vehicles on the roads before they were lost (so they had already been in the air for awhile) and it is highly unlikely that someone could shoot down a plane at 2500 m over the target area, only 1 minute after their mission has started. (10:15 vs. 10:16). More investigation is needed. By October 1, 1944 the 5 VA, 207 OKRAP had: 7 Yak-9D (six from Omsk, Factory No.166 and one from Novosibirsk, Factory No.153, but this one (S/N: 2115312) was already lost before October 25, 1944.) 16 IL-2KR (15 from Factory No.1 and a single one from Factory No.30, S/N: 302360, being repaired in Kirovograd by December 26, 1944.) 5 Po-2 biplanes Gabor Last edited by HGabor; 27th April 2020 at 16:06. |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces | Johannes | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 60 | 10th August 2025 08:26 |
| Nightfighter claims in Febr.1945 | Peter Kassak | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 5 | 5th January 2025 21:54 |
| Moelders vs Galland vs Wick | Nick Hector | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 26 | 3rd November 2018 13:26 |
| Percentage of Verifiable Victories of Various Aces –Updates & Recommendations | Rob Romero | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 25 | 9th March 2010 02:39 |
| Percentage of Verifiable Victories of Various Aces –Updates & Recommendations | Rob Romero | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 0 | 30th September 2006 09:05 |