unkown a/c - 3/3/44 Dora-9?

[ektra79]

Hi all,

As part of a larger project I am researching an air battle that took place on 3/3/44 that involved 9 Mustangs from the 4FG being attacked by 60+ a/c from the Luftwaffe. FW-190's, ME-109's, ME-110's JU-88's were all involved, but two pilots make mention of an aircraft that I cannot place and would appreciate any input.

Both pilots reported a/c as being long nosed FW190's (which they referred to at the time as FW-290's. I assumed this is how the Allies first referred to the FW-190D-9, and weren't referring to a later small rocket-propelled craft). What little research I have regarding the FW-190D-9 however indicates it wasn't operational until the autumn of 1944. From the combat report of one of the pilots:

"These 190's were long nosed-black, with long white or gray, bands around their noses. They looked remarkably heavy and fierce, and a lot like P-47's. There was fairing underneath (a bit like the type used on 190 fighter-bombers) which gave a deep belly appearance to the a/c" He added that these a/c were equipped with 'heavy cannons."

Any ideas on what the a/c may be and/or from what unit they may have come? Any info or ideas appreciated.

Regards,

Tim

[shooshoobaby]

Tim -
On March 5 , 44 -
Lt. Pete Peterson 357th FG , 364th Sq.
was credited with a FW 190 " Long Nose "
Mike

[cproyston]

"These 190's were long nosed-black, with long white or gray, bands around their noses. They looked remarkably heavy and fierce, and a lot like P-47's. There was fairing underneath (a bit like the type used on 190 fighter-bombers) which gave a deep belly appearance to the a/c" He added that these a/c were equipped with 'heavy cannons."

IMO, this sounds a lot like someone describing (and mis-identifying) a Stürm (JG1?) Fw 190A to me.

Cheers,
Chris

[ektra79]

Chris, Mike,

Thank you both for your responses.

Chris, I neglected to mention this action was in the Wittenberg area - would JG1 have been in that area at that time?

Mike, Does that 357FG claim come with any ID of plane markings? Just curious if it may have been the same outfit.

Tim

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by cproyston

"These 190's were long nosed-black, with long white or gray, bands around their noses. They looked remarkably heavy and fierce, and a lot like P-47's. There was fairing underneath (a bit like the type used on 190 fighter-bombers) which gave a deep belly appearance to the a/c" He added that these a/c were equipped with 'heavy cannons."

IMO, this sounds a lot like someone describing (and mis-identifying) a Stürm (JG1?) Fw 190A to me.

Cheers,
Chris

Five days later a 357FS/355FG mustang pilot (Norman)shot down what he described as a Long Nose Fw 190. He observed it from close range and scored the fatal hits from high deflection, then followed it to the ground.

I've often wondered about the a/c variously described as Me 209's and Long Nose FW's in that March-April 1944 timeframe?

[Franek Grabowski]

The description looks like P-47! I think it could have been a unique combination of bad recognition and wishful thinking. Airmen were awared of long nosed Fw 190s from intel bulletins, so claimed them when unable to properly recognise the type.

[Cpt_Farrel]

The description sounds like the black and white noses that JG1 wore on their Fw190A-6's and A-7's. These aircraft did have longer noses than the early A-4's and A-3's. That in combination with the striped noses might have led the pilots to think that the noses were longer than they actually were.

They propably thought of the engine cowlings ending at about the leading edge of the wing but the cowling goes a bit further back and that would become evident with that kind of paintjob on them.

In blurry, fast guncam pictures the Fw190A-8 does look a bit longer from some angles than one would imagine...

Cheers! / Anders

[ektra79]

Franek, Anders,

Thank you for both for replying.

You're right, the description of the a/c (by 4FG/336FS ace Willard Millikan does sound like a 47, but there were several in the area during that action, some of which engaged him. The second account from that day came from 4FG/336FS ace John Godfrey, and he was involved in a lengthy dogfight with one of those "long noses" (he wrote in his logbook that it was a FW290) so I don't think it could have been a mis-identified 47.

Anders,

Your note echoes what Chris posted earlier - thanks for the detailed explanation. I'll have to find out if JG1 was in the Wittenberg area on 03 March 44.

Any ideas where to start?

Thank you both again.

Tim

[ArtieBob]

The RLM Monatsmeldung indicates that Sept 1944 was the first month that Fw 190 D-9s were accepted (delivered).

Best Regards,

Artie Bob

[cproyston]

Tim,

Sorry for the delay in replying (kids + gardening = no spare time this weekend!)

Holm (www.ww2.dk) has the following locations for JG1 in Msrch '44:

Stab. - Rheine
I. - Twente, Hopsten, Wiesbaden-Erbenheim
II. - Rheine, Wiesbaden-Erbenheim
III. - Mönchen-Gladbach
20. - Wittmund

I'm, unfortunately, way out of my comfort zone of late-war ground-attack units now, so perhaps someone else knows the precise movements of JG1 in your timeframe,

Cheers,
Chris