B-17 Losses 4 Jul 43

[Chris Goss]

III./JG 2 claimed 14 B-17s between 1302 and 1341 hrs this date. I have 7 lost attacking Le Mans and Nantes and one from 92nd BG crash-landing at Portreath. Do we have any accurate locations for the 7 lost over/off France? I think I have them for 42-3235, 42-5792, 42-29641, 42-29928 and 42-29960 but would just need confirmation

[MW Giles]

Losses of 8th and 9th AF

Nantes

92 BG
42-29967 - sea
42-5916 - Portreath

La Pallice

100BG
42-30051 - Ile d'Oleron on coast

Le Mans

303BG
42-5792 - Malicorne sur Sarthe

305BG
42-29641 - Off Belle Isle
42-5053 - St Columban (Nantes area)

381BG
42-29928 - La Coulanche

384BG
42-29960 - Fosse d'Enfer (N of Le Mans)
42-3235 - Pipriac

Apologies for spelling of French towns

Martin

[Chris Goss]

Thanks Martin-most helpful

[Leendert]

Nothing to add here, but equally helpful is https://www.francecrashes39-45.net/ for even more detailed locations.

Regards,
Leendert

[focusfocus]

Error or omission excepted,I count eleven B-17 claimed by III/JG2,including HSS,e.V ?

Michel

[keith A]

Were they all shot down by fighters? None lost to AA or mechanical failure?

A discussion in another forum relating to WW1 has brought up instances where AA or mechanical failure were the cause of the loss, but attribution was made to German fighter pilots based on vague evidence of damage inflicted and proximity of the downed aircraft to the claim for it's destruction. As with WW1 the Luftwaffe is flying over it's own territory and each crashed aircraft has several possible ends.

regards

Keith

[Alex Smart]

Hello Keith,

92 BG
42-29967 - 10 POW, Believed down in sea, MACR.
42-5916 - Portreath - Crash landed on return from ops, severe battledamage and burst tyre. A/c swerved off the runwayand ran over the signals panel beside the runway. .

100BG
42-30051 - Mechanical problems, lost two engines on the bomb run. With bomb doors open a/clost altitude quickly, jettisoned its bombs over water and headed south. Attacked by Me109'swhich knocked out the third engine. The bale out order was given, 9 POW,1 Evaded, MACR 685.

303BG
42-5792 - 4 POW, 4 crew evaded so look for Evasion Reports. Lost to fighter attacks just before reaching the IP with one engine on fire the a/c crashed, 2 crew killed.

305BG
42-29641 - AA, fire in the radio room area. All came down in the sea, 10kia , MACR 4483.
42-5053 - AA, and German Fighter - 2 Kia, 6 POW, 2 Evaded Exploded in mid air and crashed- MACR14439.

381BG
42-29928 - 3 Evaded, 3 POW, 4 Kia, Left formation with flak damage and was finished off by Me109's MACR 161.

384BG
42-3235 - German Fighter, Crashed after fighter attack, 1 Evaded, 9 Kia, MACR's 3035 and 4495.
42-29960 - MiD air collision ? Shot down in the target area. 2 Kia, 2 POW, 6 Evaded . No MACR.

A good source would be the 8th & 9th Air Force Losses volume 1 that covers 4th July '43 ( pages 175 -177).
That would give more details and crew names and fates.

For interest
Donald Caldwell's "Day Fighters in defence of the Reich" has claims for 22 B-17's on the 4th July 1943.

All the best
Alex