WGr21 rockets under Me 410?

[Peter Kassak]

Hi all

Can someone tell me and prove if ZG 76 Me 410s in summer 1944 user Wgr 21 rockets? Or only Me 110s of ZG 1 in the area of central europe used this weapon???

Thanks

[obdl3945]

Hi, Peter...

The undernoted comes from Messerschmitt Me210/410 in action by George Punka (Squadron/Signal Publications), Page 42:

The targets for the bombers on 26 June [1944] were the five oil refineries near Vienna. Over Moosbierbaum, a formation of 36 B-24s of 455th Bomb Group were attacked by more than twenty twin-engined Zestörers of I./ZG76, while several single-engined fighters were engaged by the escort. The Me410s attacked the B-24s with rocket and cannon fire.

On Pages 36 and 39, there are two photographs of Me410s accredited to I. and II./ZG26 respectively, showing them as being rocket-equipped, although admittedly without confirmation as to whether or not they are of 1944 vintage. Hope this may be of help.

Regards...

[Peter Kassak]

HI obdl3945,

I have that mentioned squadron signal...
It is true that ZG 26! used rockets under Me 410s...but they were not present on June 26, 1944. I have 52.FG Narrative mission report that says Ju 88s!!! (no unit with thi a/c in that area operational) fired rockets...Might these be ZG 76 Me 410s? or ZG 1 Bf 110s that were possitively present the combat?

[obdl3945]

Hi, Peter...

Well, sorry the information wasn't of much use... just a thought in passing, though... you say you have 52 FG narrative, would the 455 BG also have provided such a narrative? If so, did they identify their attackers any differently? And one more thought... where would the author of the Squadron/Signal book most likely have sourced his information form? The German side, perhaps? Are there any Luftwaffe archived documents of the units that went up that day to engage 455 BG, and if so, which ones and what types of machines?

Sorry, more questions than answers, I fear... !

Regards...

[Csaba B. Stenge]

Hi obdl3945,

I found nothing detailed about the ZG 76's activity in summer, 1944 in the BA-MA.

As for the Ju 88 question, it was a pretty common mistake by American (and Soviet) fighters to confuse the Me 210/410's with the Ju 88's (USAAF BG's reported many times Ju 88's instead of Me 210/410's as well).

[Peter Kassak]

To obdl3945,

No i do not think the info comes from German side...or archives. It was adapted from US reports...most probably.
455BG had for sure their narrative writtne...but I have some memories as well for June 26, 1844 mission. I know they lost quite a few planes...but none due to Me 410...maybe just damaged. Most of it fell to tally of FW 190s of II./JG 300 and Me 109s of I./ JG 300.

Csaba...did you searched all files for ZG 76? Really not worth going through the archive materials?

[Gizmo]

Hi Peter,

I think that Me 410 with WGr 21 participated on 26th June battle can be ZG 26 machines (two B-24 claimed on 26th over Wien).

Most photos of ZG 76 a/c show Me 410 with ZFR sight, it suggest to me that most of ZG 76 Me 410s had two MK 103 cannons in bomb bay. I don't know about any photo of ZG 26 a/c with MK 103. Most of them have WGr 21 rocket lauchners under wings and WB 151 container in bomb bay. From spring of 1944 ZG 26 used also Me 410s with BK 5 50 mm cannon (in II. Gruppe) or a/c armed with four additional MG 151/20 guns.

[Peter Kassak]

Thanks that is what also observed from various sources...so if there is mention of Me 410s with rockets, it is ZG 26...not ZG 76! That would be logical result from this but no 100% that they did not test rockets as well at ZG 76...yet

[Peter Spoden]

Gents,
maybe of interest here is a short remark what I wrote in my book about 21 cm rockets on nighfighter mission Me 110 during early 1944 with the assistance of my good friend and translater Peter Hinchliffe (RAF):

"We attacked from astern and below, unseen by the fighters. Beneath the wings of our Me 110s we were carrying for the first time rocket launchers with 20-centimetre. rockets. The plan of attack was to approach the centre of the bomber formation with the aid of our Lichtenstein radar to a distance of exactly 2,000 metres - the range for which the rockets were calibrated - and then launch our missiles and so blow the cluster of bombers apart. Today such a murderous act of destruction would stand a much better chance of success with the aid of lasers, infra red and GPS, as many wars since 1945 have shown.
When we were still 3,000 metres away from our targets we could see the bright tracer of the American cannon-shells coming towards us. As we came closer we had the feeling that we were flying into a shower bath. I received a large number of hits in my wings - we could see the holes appearing. It was as if somebody we couldn’t see was sticking his finger in. I was a night fighter, and thank God I had never seen bullets hitting me - we didn’t see them until the mechanics pointed them out to us after we had landed. Two of the four Me 110s reported that they had lost engines: I never heard anything more about the crews. At that time of the year the Baltic was bloody cold.
As leader of the Schwarm I gave the order to open fire when we were 2,500 metres from the American bombers. Nothing happened! Not one of the launchers fired! The electric leads to the rockets must have been hit, or possibly they hadn’t been fitted properly. I pressed on the firing buttons like mad. At least I could have as go at the gaggle of Fortresses with my nose guns. I kept my finger pressed on the button and waggled my control column. Absolutely no effect – then I saw a white smoke trail coming from my port engine for. That was something else that I was seeing for the first time because it was daylight. Break off quickly and head the German coast!"

best regards like usual
Peter Spoden

[CJE]

Hello!

Here's a Me 410 with WGr.21 under attack by 8th AF fighters.

Chris