Fw 190 C and Me 410 DB 603s

[John P Cooper]

Hi all,

I am trying to broden my understanding of this topic. I am in need of information (engine data, production numbers and dates...)

As I understand the DB 603 A was not used in the Fw 190 C (V 18 to v33 excluding v28) program due to the need for the engines to be used for the Me 410 which the RLM decided had priority for the DB 603 A (Jan 1943?) and later the DB 603 G (April 1944?).

Any information would be greatly appreicated and if anyone would like to share scans of documents with me you can contact me via private message.

Thanks in advance for you assistance.

John

[John P Cooper]

bump - did not want this to fall off to fast... any information is greatly welcome!

[Ruy Horta]

Do you have the following title?

Focke-Wulf Fw 190 "Long Nose"
An Illustrated History of the Fw 190 D Series
Dietmar Hermann
Schiffer, 2003
0-7643-1876-4
It should cover most if not all of your questions, besides it is a nice book if you are into "Long Nose" Fw 190s.

[George Hopp]

Initially, the DB 603A was supposed to power the Me 410, the He 219, and the Do 217. I guess that deliveries were slow enough that the Dorniers were often left for long periods of time sitting around without engines. The Me 410 seems to have been OK for engines. About the He 219 I don't know. So, saying that the DB 603A couldn't be used to power the Fw 190C is not out of the question, although I don't have a direct answer for it.

The DB 603G was never put into series production. When the He 219 wanted to go to more powerful engines, it apparently used the Jumo 213, but which model I cannot remember.

All the best,
George

[Kutscha]

The He 219A-7 was suppose to used the Jumo 213E. Saying suppose to since afaik there was no A-7s.

New airframes built
produced 1943
A-0 : 40
01/44
A-0 : 11
02/44
A-0 : 12
03/44
A-0 : 14
04/44
A-0 : 15
05/44
A-0 : 16
06/44
A-0 : 13
07/44
A-0 : 16
08/44
A-? : 17
09/44
A-2 : 25
10/44
A-2 : 18
11/44
A-2 : 19
12/44 and up ????

totals
A-0 : 137
A-? : 17 (A-0 or A-2)
A-2 : 62+

[George Hopp]

I remember a thread of about 6 months ago that mentioned the building of, I think, 5 Jumo-powered He 219s in Dec 44 or Jan 45. But, I will need to check on that. Thanks for the construction info, Kutscha.

[Kutscha]

Some a/c (V41 for one) were tested with the Jumo 213s in Oct 1944. There was also 2 V a/c with the Jumo 222.

[George Hopp]

On 6 Jan 05, Seaplanes supplied the following extract from a document entitled "Flugzeug-Programm 227 Ausgabe 1" dated 9 Jan 45:

"He 219 A-0 Engine: DB 603A. Total ordered: 104. Delivered up to 30.11.44: 104. No further deliveries.

"He 219 A-2 Engine: DB 603AA. Total ordered: 85. Delivered up to 30.11.44: 85. No further deliveries.

"He 219 A-7 Engine: DB 603E. Total ordered: 210. None delivered up to 30.11.44. Deliveries to take place from December 1944 to July 1945.

"He 219 D-1 Engine: Jumo 213E. Total ordered: 5. None delivered up to 30.11.44. Deliveries to take place in December 1944."

I don't have any data on Dec 44 production, so cannot comment on whether or not these Jumo-powered a/c were delivered.

On that same thread, Artie Bob (Art Medcalf) noted that a January 1945 production list stated that 35 He 219A-7s, as well as one He 219 D-1, were built that month. That appears to be an awfully high number of a/c since during the month of highest Lw production, Sep 44, only 25 He 219s were produced, but why not?

In "Luftwaffe '45" Manfred Griehl says that in February Heinkel delivered 11 "high-performance" He 219s. No explanation for that phrase. Then in March he says "nearly" 15 He 219 A-7s were delivered by Heinkel-Sued in the vicinity of Vienna. And in April, a final 2 He 219 A-7s were assembled at Heinkel-Sued.

So, this is the data I have from various sources that may or may not be totally accurate. But, I find it interesting.

[INM@RLM]

"Artie Bob (Art Medcalf) noted that a January 1945 production list stated that 35 He 219A-7s, as well as one He 219 D-1, were built that month. That appears to be an awfully high number of a/c since during the month of highest Lw production, Sep 44, only 25 He 219s were produced, but why not?"

Artie Bob's information is correct. The January 1945 production list is the document titled "Beitrag zur Beschaffungsmeldung", undated but giving figures for "Ausbringung im Januar" of neubau and umbau aircraft.
The 35 A-7s were delivered by EHR (Ernst Heinkel Flugzeugwerke Rostock-Marienehe) and the single D-1 by EHW (Ernst Heinkel Flugzeugwerke Wien-Schwechat).
This document can be found in the Bundesarchiv under reference BA-MA RL 3/1278 (RL 3/425 IWM), also on microfilm at the Imperial War Museum on Speer Documents Microfilm Reel No. 129. (The various British references for this document are: FD5639/45 Box 400 & A.D.I. (K) No. 166/99). I would guess this can also be found on Microfilm at the US NARA but I have no reference for this.
My digitised version is attached: