First P/R overflight of Moscow?

[Karoband]

Gentlemen,

According the deZeng and Stankey,Luftwaffe Officer Career Summaries article on then Oberleutnant Cornelius Noell, on "01.07.41 was the first recon pilot to photograph Moscow".

1. What aircraft did he use?

2. What airfield did he fly from?

best regards,

Jim Geens

[Larry deZeng]

Interesting................I just went through all of my stuff but cannot find a reference to this meritorious deed. I am thinking it may have come from the Ritterkreuz works put out by Biblio-Verlag or the author and publisher Viet Scherzer. Doug has all of these RK biographical books and I have passed this on to him to see if he can find it. Noell would have been with either Versuchsstelle für Höhenflüge (VfH) or 4.(F)/Aufkl.Gr. Ob.d.L. at the time. Both were making long-range reconnaissance flights over the USSR in spring-summer 1941.

L.

[Karoband]

Hi Larry,

Thanks! From the following it is obvious that the summaries you and Doug are invaluable to buffs like myself.

Cornelius Noell, from your article, "22.10.41 Oblt., awarded Ritterkreuz, 4.(F)/Aufkl. Gr. Ob.d.L.". And from the summary on Joseph Bisping, "22.10.41 Oblt., awarded the Ritterkreuz as an observer in 4.(F)/Aufkl. Gr.Ob.d.L." Perhaps Bisping was his navigator?

Your work is invaluable!

Jim

[Larry deZeng]

We're still checking, Jim. I increasingly think this is something Doug found. But I did find something strange this afternoon. While looking through the obvious sources, I did come upon the Theodor Rowehl postwar history in which he says:

T.Rowehl-“Chronik der Aufklaerungsgruppe des Ob.d.L.”, unpublished and undated manuscript, 28p., Karlsruhe Collection/MGFA Freiburg, Lw 108/16.
Comment: author Rowehl says it was 1.(F)/Ob.d.L. that flew recce missions to Moscow in 1941 but he makes no mention of the 1 July 1941 flight over Moscow. 1.(F)/Ob.d.L. was assigned to strategic reconnaissance on the central sector of the Eastern Front along the axis toward Moscow. He says in all only 1 RK was awarded to Aufkl.Gr. Ob.d.L. members along with 10 DKi.G and approx. 25 Frontflugspangen in Gold. But I would not put too much stock in the accuracy of this account of the awards because like so many others, Rowehl wrote his manuscript postwar without access to any documents.

Your findings on Bisping sound very likely - both getting the award on the same mission because of its extraordinary nature, importance and danger.

The search continues................

L.

[Larry deZeng]

Jim -

Have it! And it's entirely thanks to Doug Stankey's diligent investigating and good memory. While I was randomly working my way through book after book, he remembered where he had seen it and got back to me this morning. Here are his findings:

It appears most likely that this was obtained from :
Rohde, Dr. Norbert. Die Fliegenden Augen des Oberst Rowehl (Velten: Veltener Verlagsgesellschaft mbH, n.d. but probably 2010?). ISBN: 978-3-9813649-3-4.

Specifically page 64 states that Cornelius Noell was the observer (pilot: Josef Bisping) on the missions completely covering the Moscow area, completed on or by 26.06.41 from Dünaburg (Daugavpils). The unit was 2.(F)/Aufkl.Gr. Ob.d.L. with Do 215. (Page 154). Where the 01.07.41 date came from I cannot recall.

http://www.eurobuch.com

This is just a guess, but the 1 July 1941 date may be the date Noell and Bisping were recommended for the RK or possibly the date of their final flight to the Moscow area.

L.

[Karoband]

Hi Larry,

Thank you! And thank Doug Stankey for me. It is interesting that on this mission and those of the Ju 86 both crew seem to be qualified pilots.

Jim

[Mikael Olrog]

Just a short note, it says on page 154 that the aircraft used for the Moscow flights were a Ju 88 B-0. "Dieser Bildaufklärungsflug erfolgte von Dunaburg aus mit einer Ju 88 B-0 der 1. Staffel der Aufklärungsgruppe Ob.d.L."

BR /Mikael

[Larry deZeng]

!!!

Mikael and Jim: Hmmm.......I would tend to go with 1.(F)/Ob.d.L. at Dünaburg:

1.(F)/Aufkl.Gr. Ob.d.L.

Attached to Luftflotte 1 and ordered to Seerappen, near Königsberg in East Prussia, in November 1940 to carry out clandestine photo reconnaissance of Soviet airfields and other objectives in North Russia and Belorussia, and then on 16 July 1941 transferred from Seerappen to Minsk-South for reassignment to Luftflotte 2.

However, Dünaburg was first used by the Luftwaffe on 28 June 1941 having been in Soviet hands prior to that. I suspect the long-range Ob.d.L. reconnaissance flights would have been staged from there, i.e., fly in from East Prussia, top off the fuel tanks, fly the mission, land back at Dünaburg, refuel and then return to East Prussia.

L.

[Col Bruggy]

Larry,

Have you consulted, David Kahn's "Hitler Spies"? Kahn corresponded both, with Theodor Rowehl, and Cornelius Noell. His Chapter 8, The World From the Sky (pp.114-135), mentions the overflights. There is also a mention in Chapter 24, The Greatest Mistake (pp.445-461). Kahn also cites a couple of publications not mentioned in your Bibliography:

Luftspionage.
Eyermann, Karl-Heinz.
Berlin: Deutscher Militaerverlag,1963.
2 Vols. (Kahn mentions, that Eyermann has got some of his dates wrong)

Augen am Himmel: eine Piratenchronik.
Schreyer,Wolfgang.
Berlin: Deutscher Militaerverlag,1968 (437 pp.)

I am aware all of these sources are pre-1978, but Kahn was a dedicated historian/researcher, and quoted all his sources. As you will find if you consult his Notes and Bibliography:

Hitler's Spies:German Military Intelligence in World War II.
Kahn,David.
New York: Macmillan Publishing,1978.

Dated, but potentially useful.

Col.

[Mikael Olrog]

Deutscher Militaerverlag Was an eastern german publication company, and for us old enough to remember the wall days know that one has to read such publications quite carefully to extract whatever true and accurate information that might in there, since not everything can be taken at face value.