Moving Barkhorn story . . .

[ValorStudios]

Hello all,

In reading Horrido! by Trevor and Constable I came across an incredible story about Gerd Barkhorn shooting up a Russian fighter and instead of finishing it off, he flew alongside it and gestured for the pilot to bailout, which he did.

On the ground Eric Hartmann asked him why he did it and Barkhorn explained: "Bubi, you must remember that one day that Russian pilot was the baby son of a beautiful Russian girl. He has his right to life and love the same as we do.”

Has anyone ever heard any more details about this encounter? When it took place? Where? Hartmann's version of the story?

Thanks!
Bryan

[Johannes]

Hi Bryan

This is the book that explains in great detail Hartmann's combat's, victories and him bailing-out in combat with Mustang's, that never happened.................there is a fair chance it's just not true!

Regards

Johannes

P.S don't know if these two even flew together, I'll ask Bernd Barbas about it.

[Nikita Egorov]

Barkhorn used to finish belly-landed planes on the ground. I don't think he showed some mercy towards those in the air.

[yogybär]

Nikita, if that is true, it would fit into a picture of a "real warrior" who fights until total victory. Somewhere I read that Barkhorn had an astonishingly bad eyesight for a fighter pilot. But once his wingman showed him the enemy, he almost always "bit into the enemy (like a predator), until he went down" (translation of "sich in den Gegener verbeißen, bis er fällt"). Additionally, it also fits with the extremely high number of combat missions which Barkhorn flew - THE workaholic in JG52...

PS: "if that is true,..." does not mean that I have any reason to doubt in your statement .

[Nikita Egorov]

Hi, Joerg,

The majority of German aces tried to finish off the plane on the ground, if there was an opportunity to do so. Little of them shot the hanging parachutes. I have several cases with no clear indication who particularly did this.
As regards to Barkhorn, maybe he was so sentimental, however, I'am doubtful of this. If Mr. Barbas has the exact date when it happened I can point out Soviet pilot, who was "saved".

Originally Posted by yogybär

Nikita, if that is true, it would fit into a picture of a "real warrior" who fights until total victory. Somewhere I read that Barkhorn had an astonishingly bad eyesight for a fighter pilot. But once his wingman showed him the enemy, he almost always "bit into the enemy (like a predator), until he went down" (translation of "sich in den Gegener verbeißen, bis er fällt"). Additionally, it also fits with the extremely high number of combat missions which Barkhorn flew - THE workaholic in JG52...

PS: "if that is true,..." does not mean that I have any reason to doubt in your statement .

[harrison987]

mmmmmm...but people change...

The camaraderie of the German Pilots was higher than any other air force. For most of the aces, htey were simply aircraft pilots first and foremost.

Having met quite a few of them, situations like that noted above were more common than you think.

Franz Stigler was an amazing man, and joined the war as an instructor. He switch to a fighter pilot to avenge his brother's death...but then saved a B-17 crew later in the war...and subsequently stopped placing victory marks on his tail. He realized that were are human beings...doing inhumane things to each other...and it needed to stop.

German pilot's would also try to count parachutes after downing a bomber to make sure everyone got out okay.

There are also numerous stories (factual), of captured US and British pilots who they would sit with and share combat stories with.

Finnish pilots were also similar.

I am fairly sure these type of situations were much more common with the long-timers, as opposed to the last ditch efforts of the newbies.

Mike

[Juha]

Originally Posted by Nikita Egorov

Hi, Joerg,

The majority of German aces tried to finish off the plane on the ground, if there was an opportunity to do so. Little of them shot the hanging parachutes. I have several cases with no clear indication who particularly did this...

IIRCone condition of accepted kill in LW was that the enemy plane was destroyed. There was a sound military logic behind that if the plane bellylanded onto its own side. IMHO morally there was a difference if the strafer wanted to kill also the pilot/crew or not. But after all it was a war and the killing of able-body enemy soldier who had not surrendered was legal.

Juha

[ahafan]

Originally Posted by Nikita Egorov

Barkhorn used to finish belly-landed planes on the ground. I don't think he showed some mercy towards those in the air.

Funny when WW2" crops up-(WHAT DO I HEAR-NAZI) in WW1 tiger jones did say he shot parachutes.in my opinion he was intitled too.
but that he never made a habit out of it...
''GET A LIFE!!

[Nokose]

I've been reading "Red Star Airacobra" by Evgeniy Mariinskiy. Barkhorn "might not" have been after the pilot on destroying the shot down aircraft but destroying it was sound. In the book Ml.Lt. Viktor Grigorevich Korolev was shot down on the 20Oct43 and forced landed his Airacobra. The mechanics recovered it that night and started repairing it to put it back in the air. Erich Hartmann was in the air in those battles that day. If the plane wasn't destroyed it didn't show up on the 129 GIAP losses as destroyed.

[NickM]

Originally Posted by Nokose

I've been reading "Red Star Airacobra" by Evgeniy Mariinskiy. Barkhorn "might not" have been after the pilot on destroying the shot down aircraft but destroying it was sound. In the book Ml.Lt. Viktor Grigorevich Korolev was shot down on the 20Oct43 and forced landed his Airacobra. The mechanics recovered it that night and started repairing it to put it back in the air. Erich Hartmann was in the air in those battles that day. If the plane wasn't destroyed it didn't show up on the 129 GIAP losses as destroyed.

I read in Shore's 'Fighters over the Desert' about a JG-27 "experte" who flew during the campaign in the Western Desert (sorry I forgot his name...) who always strafed aircraft that 'bellied in' until they burned or were 'unsalvageable'---he did allow the pilot to get out first, however; in the end he got caught by surprise at low altitude while strafing one such wreck & was shot down & killed.

Well now...I found my old post on this same case; the Pilot was Otto Schulz;

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=14295