4.(F)/Nacht and OOB Luftflotte 4 Apr.-Jun.43

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hello friends,

according to www.ww2.dk, night recce Staffel 4.(F)/Nacht operated from Saporoshje-Ost 2.43-9.43, i.e. in the area of Luftflotte 4.
Indeed, two losses were in the area of that air fleet during Apr.-Jun.43 (21.4.43 and 18.6.43).

But in order of battle of Luftflotte 4 on 3.Aug.43 (closest data in the German multivolume history of the WW2) 4.(F)/Nacht is absent. Is it means that Staffel in question was removed before Aug.43 and probably replaced by 1.(F)/Nacht?

And more general question. Is the OOB of Luftflotte 4 for some dates between 1.Apr. and 30.Jun.43 available?
I know about the OOB 17.May.43 published by Alfred Price. But in that OOB all recce units are omitted. An allotment of units between I., IV. and VIII.Fliegerkorps is interesting also.

Best regards,
Andrey

[Larry deZeng]

Andrey -

4.(F)/Nacht returned to the Reich in July to rest, refit and convert to the Ju 88 and Ju 188. It was not again identified at the front until 2 Mar 44 when it was at Baranowicze/E Poland.
[Sources: Dierich – Die Verbände der Luftwaffe 1935-1945; Défieux, Jean-Pierre - Répertoire des Unités Aériennes de la Luftwaffe 1935-1945: Reconnaissance Aéronavale (Nanterre, privately published, n.d. (c 1988-90?)).


Jul 43
[Luftflotte 4 with: I. Fliegerkorps, IV. Fliegerkorps, VIII. Fliegerkorps, Comandamentul Aviatiei de Luptã (Romanian Combat Aviation Command), 102. Repülődandár (Hungarian 102d Air Brigade), Seefliegerführer Schwarzes Meer. Assigned units on 5 Jul: Stab/FAGr. 4, 2.(F)/11, 2.(F)/22, 2.(F)/100, 4.(F)/122, 1.(F)/Nacht, 4.(F)/Nacht, Westa 76, Stab/NAGr. 1 (with 1.(H)/41, 2./NAGr. 16?), Stab/NAGr. 6 (with 5.(H)/32, 2.(F)/33), Stab/NAGr. 9 (with 1.(H)/21, 7.(H)/32), Stab/NAGr. 14 (with 5.(H)/11, 5.(H)/41), II.,III./JG 3, Stab, I.,II.,III./JG 52, Stab, I.,II.,III./St.G. 2, Pz.Jäg.St./St.G. 2, Stab, I.,II.,III./St.G. 77, Stab, I.,II./Schl.G. 1, Führer d. Panzerjägerstaffeln (5 Hs 129B-2 Staffeln), Störkampfgruppe d. Lfl. 4, Stab, I.,II.,III./KG 27, 14.(Eis.)/KG 27, Stab, II.,III./KG 55, 14.(Eis.)/KG 55, I./KG 100, plus a large number of liaison, transport and med-evac units along with Romanian and Hungarian air units].

I do not guarantee that this Luftflotte 4 Kriegsgliederung for 5 July 1943 is complete because I can no longer identify the source I got it from. I think it may be pieced together from several different sources, most of them primary.

I have never encountered a full-blown Luftflotte 4 Kriegsgliederung for the period after 5 Jul 43 to the end of 1943.

L.

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Larry, thank you a lot! Useful info as usual.

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

I have never encountered a full-blown Luftflotte 4 Kriegsgliederung for the period after 5 Jul 43 ...

And what about BEFORE 5.Jul (Apr.-Jun. or a bit earlier)?

Andrey

[Larry deZeng]

Only this one, Andrey:

31 Jan 43: Luftwaffenkdo. Don reported the following assigned units: 2.(F)/22, 3.(F)/100, 4.(F)/Nacht, Stab/NAGr. 10, 3.(H)/21, 2.(H)/31, 5.(H)/32, I./JG 52, Behelfs-NJ-Schw., III./St.G. 2, Pz.Jagd-St. 51, Störkampf-Gr. Lw.Kdo. Don, I./KG 1, Stab,I.,III./KG 3, 14.(Eis.)/KG 27, plus several transport and miscellaneous units - total strength 270(109).

L.

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Thank you again, Larry!

So Feb.-Jun.43 for Luftflotte 4 still terra incognita, and the reconstruction unit by unit is inevitable.

By the way, have you a plan to publish the volumes about recce units like the bomber and Stuka/GA books?

And a specific question. On 26.Jun.43 Stab/NAGr12 had a loss in Kertsch (Crimea). Why that Stab was in Crimea thereat? Each field army had one NAGr under command, and AOK17 had NAGr9. Why the second NAGr was in AOK17 area?

Andrey

[Larry deZeng]

Andrey -

Stab/NAGr. 12:
April – September 1943: returned to Germany to reorganize as a single-seat reconnaissance Gruppe with Messerschmitt Bf 109s - locations uncertain, but probably at Jesau/East Prussia initially and then moved to Herzogenaurach in Bavaria.

Therefore, my guess is that aircraft lost may have been turned over to another unit when the Stab left for the Reich in April. Did you find this loss in the Gen.Qu.(6.Abt.) Verlustmeldungen, in a book or where? I do not have a note on it.

Re publishing, I have not decided yet.

L.

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

Did you find this loss in the Gen.Qu.(6.Abt.) Verlustmeldungen, in a book or where? I do not have a note on it.

In the Gen.Qu.(6.Abt.) Verlustmeldungen. Wn 2370, Feindflug.
Sorry, the date is 23.Jun., not 26. My typo.
Fw Walter Kripahle and Lt Alois Niewiers were wounded.
Maybe you know whether Lt Niewiers was from NAGr12 really?

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

Re publishing, I have not decided yet.

I hope for the best.

Andrey

[Larry deZeng]

Andrey -

All I have is a correction to the spelling. His name was Alois NIEWIERA and he was promoted to Oblt. on 1 March 1944. This is from the Dienstaltersliste der Offiziere der Deutschen Luftwaffe nach dem Stande vom 1. August 1944, page 400. He was a Truppenoffizier (A 1). Unfortunately, this document does not list unit assignments.

If I run across his name in the future, I will let you know.

L.

[Andreas Brekken]

I can confirm that Nahaufklärungsgruppe 12 did their conversion in Jesau, with Stab., 1./12 and 2./12. converting to a soll of 4, 16 and 16 Bf 109G-4 (Nahaufklärer) respectively and 3./12 to a soll of 9 Bf 110F3/G3.

They did not receive any aircraft from April to June, the first one being an old Bf 109E-7, then a Bf 109G-6.

Aircraft started trickling in and the unit was then attached to Luftwaffenbefehlshaber Mitte in mid-July 1943.

They were sent to Herzogenaurauch in mid-September 1943 for refitment, the unit being noted as destined for Luftwaffenkommando Südost after finishing this.

1./12 operating under Luftwaffenkommando Südost by October 20th 1943, Stab and 2./12. following by November 11th.

Regards,
Andreas B

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

Andrey -

Stab/NAGr. 12:
April – September 1943: returned to Germany to reorganize as a single-seat reconnaissance Gruppe with Messerschmitt Bf 109s - locations uncertain, but probably at Jesau/East Prussia initially and then moved to Herzogenaurach in Bavaria.

Therefore, my guess is that aircraft lost may have been turned over to another unit when the Stab left for the Reich in April. Did you find this loss in the Gen.Qu.(6.Abt.) Verlustmeldungen, in a book or where? I do not have a note on it.

Re publishing, I have not decided yet.

L.

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Larry, thank you once more!

Andrey