New picture of a Me262 with Karoband

[Karl]

Hi all,

I just found a new (to me) photo of a captured karoband-Me262.

Follow this link:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_l6gtRWCxIl...0-h/Me-262.jpg

Enjoy it, Karl

[Walterd]

you think the band is red and black kgj 6

Walt

[Karl]

yes, I assume one of the KG(J)6 planes that left Saatz / Zatec on 8th of May 1945 to prevent Russian captivity for the pilot, like "Karoband" or chequerboard-band plane "yellow 5", which landed at Munich-Riem.

Karl

[Dan O'Connell]

A Me 262 A-1a, with the black/red checker band of KG(J) 6, was photographed at Herzogenauroth, (Herzogenaurach, Herzogenrath, Herzogenreuth) Germany, at the end of the war.

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by Dan O'Connell

A Me 262 A-1a

What did the small 'a' in this case represent?

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by Dénes Bernád

What did the small 'a' in this case represent?

You too??? .

Franck.

[ouidjat]

Hello,
For me too Karl, thanks very much.
Regards, Franck.

[Harold Lake]

At the risk of making pejorative statements, I seriously think we need to stand back and be honest with ourselves when it comes to defining marking colors painted on German aircraft 65 years ago. In this case, how do we know the dark color of the Me 262's checkerboard was Black? Why not Dark Blue (color # 24)? I mean, if you look at contemporary photos of American aircraft, and if you didn't know better, wouldn't you think the US national aircraft insignia was actually in black and white instead of Insignia Blue (dark blue) and Insignia White? If you take a hard look at original photos of "Yellow 5", for example, you will see that the aircraft's original checkerboard pattern was incomplete when the aircraft fell into US hands. Yet, some authors/publishers with photoshop skills have, on their own, either added the "missing color" or made the checkerboard a solid single band. This is crossing the line at best. At the very least we need the ability to cross examine the witness, do we not?

Hal

[Harold Lake]

David,

You have certainly been playing in the checkerboard sandbox far longer than me, and probably longer than most readers of this thread. So all of us owe you a huge debt of gratitude for your thoughful and comprehensive presentation.

So red and black it is for 501232! You rest your case! Just for the record, for me the clincher was found on the port side of this Me 262. In the photo with Watson and a German officer, if you look closely at the band's leading edge, just to the officer's left elbow at the location of the black vertical lifting arrow, you will see unmistakable evidence of a second checkerboard color. And the fact its tonal brightness is virtually identical to the adjacent camouflage paint further reinforces your conclusion for the color Red!

Now, if you can ferret out the werk nummer for Yellow 3, that would indeed be masterful!

Hal

[David E. Brown]

Hi Hal,

Thanks for the comments. I should note that my good friend Philippe de Meldeur in Belgium has studied these markings for about as long as I have. I highly value his comments and insights that he has shared with me over the years and has challenged me on my interpretations. I guess he now owes me one of those great Belgium beers he tells me about!

Yes, the difference between the lighter colour of the tailband and the lighter camouflage colour is very subtle but with a good quality print one can see the difference. Tom and Richard thought that the shade was best matched with Hellgrün 25, whilst the darker squares Bau 24. Rot 23 is also a very good match and with new information that was subsequently revealed, we now know that band was red and black.

By the way, the officer standing with Col. Watson is none other than Lt. Heinrich Haeffner, the pilot of "Yellow 5" though serving with 2./KG 51. I was able to match his features in this photo and those taken of him that were part of a collection that included his diary, military documents, etc. as well as other photos taken of him with KG 51 pilots.

I believe that the photo you refer to was taken around noon on May 9th while Col. Watson was at München-Riem looking for aircraft to return to the U.S. He arrived there on the morning of the 8th and witnessed the arrival of the Ju 290, and possibly "Yellow 5" and "Black X" later in the day, and if memory serves was back at Lechfeld later on the 9th.

Regarding "Yellow 3's" identity (the Moosburg kite), based on its original camouflage and national markings style (and rear rudder light), as well as some documents, I think that I know its werknummer should be. Time will tell . . .

Cheers,

David