New photo of a well known Fw 190 D9

[Rémi Baudru]

Bonjour à tous,

A new photo of a well known Fw 190 D9

http://www.ebay.de/itm/FOTO-FLUGZEUG...item58bbc30a72

Regards.
Rémi

[PhilippeDM]

Fw 190 D-9 <II+ Stab. JG2 WNr unknown Rhein Main 1945 see Crandall - 'The Focke-Wulf Fw 190 Dora' - Vol. 1 p.192-199

[sidney]

Here http://www.mission4today.com/index.p...printertopic=1 is a link to the discussion on the above Fw190D-9, with some excerpts from the various books. According to those, the aircraft actually belonged to Stab/JG 4.

Regards,
Sinisa

[PhilippeDM]

Was studying further...

@ Steve,
I think you are mixing up 2 airplanes: both are <II+ and the one you refer to is not WNr. 210194 but Fw 190 D-9 <II+ Stab. JG2 WNr unknown Rhein Main 1945 see Crandall - 'The Focke-Wulf Fw 190 Dora' - Vol. 1 p.192-199. The picture above is from a later period, I think, as the headrest and the turbo intake are missing, opposed to some pictures of Crandall's series.
In Larger & Deboeck 'Focke-Wulf Fw 190D Camouflage & Markings - Part II' p. 334-338 the same aircraft is discussed.

The other one is also shown in Crandalls book, p.78-79 and is referred as Fw 190 D-9 <II+ Stabsschwarm I./JG 2 - 1 January 1945 in Dorf, Germany, and in Fw. Werner Hohenberg or in Larger & Deboeck book p.113-115.

Pictures of this aircraft are too small to distinguish better the engine cowlings and the area arround the exhaust where an Adlerflügel should be drawn.

@ Sinisa: I definitely opt for JG2 on both options...

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by S Sheflin

I wish I could take everything back.

Steve Sheflin

There's always the "edit" button!

[John Manrho]

Regarding post #8. The copy of the NVM of Fw. Hohenberg is not the way how it is archived in Berlin (DD). I have a direct copy of the original and the NVM does not give any information on markings <II or RVT-Band. So these have been added by someone on a copy and that copy has been used in the Japo book. By the way, I have never seen NVM with details on RVT bands applied yes or no. Of course the famous picture of 210194 shows the marking to be <II and the yellow-white-yellow band clearly. I am only aware of one picture of this aircraft in bellylanded condition and on my copy I vaguely see some markings on the port side engine cowling. If this is damage, graffiti or an actual emblem I can not see. Of course the Gen.QU.Mstr. report on this a/c gives the marking as Winkel.

I believe there is enough evidence that JG 1 (red), JG 2 (yellow-white yellow), JG 3 (white), JG 4 (black-white-black), JG 6 (red-white-red), JG 11 (yellow), JG 26 (black-white), JG 27 (green), JG 53 (black), IV./JG 54 (blue), JG 77 (white-green) used their bands. This is based on Allied reports on crashed a/c or on photographic evidence. I stil feel there must be a link to Luftflotte Reich for the RVT bands, I do not believe this was a generic order for every front.

Regards,

John

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by John Manrho

I still feel there must be a link to Luftflotte Reich for the RVT bands, I do not believe this was a generic order for every front.

Regards,

John

And yet, as I reproduce on my website, information about the bands was passed to To Sea Defence Commander Hammerfest in the far north of Norway and to the the Waffen-SS in Hungary. That at least suggests that aircraft might be redeployed to any front without removal of the bands.

[sidney]

Post No.5: Steve, if it is of any consolation, the excerpts from the literature provided are just different opinion on the matter.

Post No.6: Phillipe, JG 2 was the so-called "Frontgeschwader", and it is not necessarily proven that it actually applied the Reichsverteidigung (RV) band on its aircraft, although it did have one allocated to it. Thus, what you see as the yellow-white-yellow RV band of JG 2, I see as the faded black-white-black RV band of JG 4.

Regards,
Sinisa

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by sidney

Post No.6: JG 2 was the so-called "Frontgeschwader", and it is not necessarily proven that it actually applied the Reichsverteidigung (RV) band on its aircraft, although it did have one allocated to it.
Regards,
Sinisa

The idea of Reichsverteidigung bands originated (I believe) in a series of 1960s books by Karl Ries and was his interpretation of the photo evidence he had. My own research leads me to think that the late-war bands were allocated as part of the planning for the »Große Schlag« operation envisaged for November 1944. Their purpose is described as "better recognition in the air" (e.g. for assembling or reassembling a large formation of fighters).

It's worth noting that JG 5 aircraft in Norway carried recognition bands, despite not defending the Reich. The use of JG's yellow/white/yellow bands is confirmed by Allied reports on crashed and captured aircraft; also the other Western Front units, JG 26, 27 and 53 carried bands.

[PhilippeDM]

Post 7: @Sinisa: Sinisa, do you have the books I mentionned in my earlier post (#6)? They are full of airplanes with yellow white yellow - JG2 RV bands - including those two. Even an extract from the I./JG 2 operations' record prove the operational use of the band on JG 2. see annex.
(written specification: '<||+ |g|w|g|' or Gelbe Weiss Gelbe of Yellow White Yellow)
Source Japo Vol. 1 p 114