Arado 109E plates

[stephen f. polyak]

Any info on these plates, and W.Nr. 3346 and 3356, will be welcome.

Thank you,
Steve

[stephen f. polyak]

With thanks to John Beaman in an earlier post:

Bf 109E, 3346, 1.JG 27wei§e7 +, Fall 1940., Kanal, Prien/Rodeike/Stemmer, Stab & I./JG 27, p.109 photo, Guines-

Is it possible to see a scan of the photo he mentioned?

[Rasmussen]

W.Nr. 3346 was an AGO produced Bf 109E-1 under repair in Erla Antwerpen in the time frame from 16.12.1940 - 31.01.1941.

Best wishes
Rasmussen

[Tomislav Haramincic]

Hello,

Regarding WNr.3356, I have this one with a note that it was flown by Uffz. Heinz Bär around October 1939, with the 1./JG51 at Fl.Pl. Speyer, marked weisse 13+.
The data is from Prien's JFV series.

best regards,
TH

[Tom Willis]

Hi Rasmussen

I am not doubting you. But if you say W/Nr. 3346 was built by AGO. Why does the plate say Arado Flugzeugwerke?

If you could help clear this up I would be most grateful

Thanks

Regards

Tom Willis

[Stig Jarlevik]

Guys

I echo Tom on this. How can the aircraft have been built by AGO if the plate says Arado?
Also on a perhaps more trivial note, why does the physical appearance of the two plates differ so much? Did the engraver (is it called that?) with Arado do just as he pleased when he manufactured these plates....?

Also Stephen, what is the meaning of the plate in the middle?

Cheers
Stig

[stephen f. polyak]

Hi to all,

Am not sure I can add much clarity to all this, but here goes.

Based on recollection, the upper two plates came from the same airplane (3346); the lower plate came from another (3356).

At least one source linking 109 W.Nr.'s to makers shows AGO for both of these W.Nr. Yet, in all my years of collecting and studying plates, as I recall sitting here, I have not seen a 109 plate marked AGO (I will check further, and that does not mean that there weren't any); however, I have seen AGO plates for other types of airplanes. Could it be that AGO assembled 109's (or parts thereof) using subparts made by others such as Arado? The subparts would be marked to their original source. Thus, Arado plates could end up on an airplane built by AGO. I would expect that in such a case, the airplane's main ID plate would show AGO.

Alternatively, could the information on W.Nr.'s and makers be off?

The plates as made (acid-etched) are very comparable in style. One minor difference here: the size of the etched font on the middle plate is slightly larger than the other two. The punched/stamped (not engraved) entries vary a lot, but that is typical. It's the result of different workers, using different tool sets, at different times, entering similar and dissimilar information and working by hand.

Steve

[Rasmussen]

Originally Posted by Tom Willis

Hi Rasmussen
I am not doubting you.

That's o.k. so because you have to doubt on two complete different primary sources: 1.) the 5-day-reports of FRB Erla VII Antwerpen and 2.) the "Änderungsliste Bf 109", Blatt 42, (published here on TOCH). Both sources reported the W.Nr.3346 as an AGO machine (and the JFV, v.1, by Prien too but this isn't an primary source). The explanation of Stephen could be the solution ... it's the same like the Bf 110 in Berlin. I'd guess they found an plate by Erla (maybe with the W.Nr.) and thought the Bf 110 was built by Erla (and wrote this on her exhibition plate) but ... Erla was the producer of the wings and not more. Now they had correct it.

Best wishes
Rasmussen

[stephen f. polyak]

Here are two examples of AGO plates: Hs126 (upper) and Ar96 (lower).

The Hs126 plate came from the hoard found buried years ago at RAF Kenley; the desert tan overspray suggests it was originally taken in North Africa. While damage from long-term ground exposure denies some entries, based on Henschel plates I have seen that are the same style, the AGO plate may be a main ID plate, or at least, it listed the Hs126 W.Nr. (now gone).

The Ar96 plate was recovered in Norway. It does not seem to be an airframe W.Nr. plate, but a component or assembly data plate.

These two examples demonstrate that parts and airplanes built by AGO received AGO data/ID plates. In the case of AGO built Bf109's, it appears that major parts made by Arado, so identified by Arado plates, were also used.

[Merlin]

Gentlemen,

there is no miracle behind these tow planes. The "Änderungsliste Bf 109" (published here on TOCH) lists those production numbers for which a specific technical upgrade became necessary.

Blatt 65 of this document gives the Bf 109E-1 series from Arado and Ago on which the oilcooler cover has to be modified. Here one can see that both production areas are overlapping each other:
Ago 3300 to 3359
Arado 3333 to 3664

Consequently the information on the data plate as well as Rasmussen's reply post #8 are correct.