Losses off Tobruk 25 Oct 42

[Chris Goss]

252 Sqn claimed a Do 24 (none lost from what I can see) and a Ju 88 over land and another over sea 0710-1150hrs; can anyone identify the Ju 88s?

[Steve49]

Originally Posted by Chris Goss

252 Sqn claimed a Do 24 (none lost from what I can see) and a Ju 88 over land and another over sea 0710-1150hrs; can anyone identify the Ju 88s?

There's no mention of any Ju88's, but I see Med Air War Vol 2 lists one Italian Cant Z.501 (MM35844) being shot down 20 miles north of Tobruk at 10:00 on the 25th October. Possibly the claimed 'Do24'?

[Nick Beale]

From TNA HW 5/151

CX/MSS/1581, para. 26

Scrap of report from an unspecified authority on 25/10 …Beaufighter driven off … (8) On 24/10: after convoy escort 4 Ju 88 of LG 1 landed back at Derna. Operated on 25/10 with Alfredo convoy. At 0700 hours in 23E, 3368 (B% attack by 12 … (remainder not seen).

CX/MSS/1581/T1

[On the 26th] whilst proceeding to take up escort duties, 2 Ju 88 C-6 (heavy fighters) engaged 2 Beaufighters and shot down one of them.

[Note, refers to Alfredo convoy]

CX/MSS/1581/T9

… Total operations by Fliegerkorps X on 25/10. In all, 78 sorties as follows … Escort: 6 Bf 110 on air transport escort. 6 Bf 110, 30 Ju 88, 8 He 111, 4 Ar 196 on convoy escort, see separate reports. 2 Ju 88, 1 Do 217 on night escort. Jamming operatins 2 He 111.

Aircraft shot down 4 Beaufighters for certain, 1 probably. Losses [possibly figure missing in binding of file] Ju 88 of (Roman) I./LG 1.

CX/MSS/15889/T1

Reports by SULTAN Ic on 26/10:

… 8th report: Supplements ref. 6th report of 25/10, para. 3: 4 a/c shot down by a/c of III./ZG 26. Nothing found of Ju 52 which crashed in flames.

[Jim P.]

Ju 88A-4/trop, 140284, Kramer, Uffz. Wolfgang, , I., 3., LG 1, , L1+GL, , , 25-Oct-42, KIA with crew due to Luftkampf with Beaufighter from 252 Sq., , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.11; Taghon, LG 1, II, p.504, , nördlich Tobruk, 100%, F, B Gefr. Hans Jankowski, Bf Ogefr. Fritz Egger & Bs Uffz. Rudolf Lutz, ,
Ju 88A-4, , Nieswandt, Uffz. Horst, , IV., 12., LG 1, , , , , 25-Oct-42, Bauchlandung due to Luftkampf with enemy fighters., , Mittelmeer, Taghon, LG 1, II, p.505, , Cyrenaika, b, F, Bf Ogefr. Helmut Hoffmann, ,

[Laurent Rizzotti]

The Cant is at the right place and time to be the claimed "Do 24".

A pity the LG 1 losses do not appear in MAW2.

[Peter T]

I have an account by Hoffmann, all 3 were shot over sea. First the Do 24, went burning into the sea, then the Ju 88 of Kramer. The Nieswandt plane was then attacked by made it to the coast.

[Chris Goss]

Thanks all

[Russell]

The German element for 25th October in the Above the Waves Chapter at p 610 was omitted.
German claims
10./ZG 26 Hptm. Peter Habicht Beaufighter PQ 2581: 20m 11.15
9./ZG 26 Oblt. Gerhard Zebitz Beaufighter PQ 1175: 20m 12.36
9./ZG 26 Ofw. Helmut Haugk Beaufighter PQ 3189: 10m 12.40
9./ZG 26 Ofw. Richard Schaal Beaufighter PQ 3325: 50m 12.40
9./ZG 26 Ofw. Helmut Haugk Beaufighter N Tobruk 12.48


German Casualties
Ln.Regt 2 Ju 52/3m WNr 7532 KA+SB shot down by Beaufighters, crashed in sea; Fw Anton Stehle and three MiA
III./KGzbV 1 Ju 52/3m WNr 3131 FTR from flight Malemes-Tobruk, presumed shot down; Obfw Josef Meisenhäller and three KiA
11./LG 1 Ju 88A-4 WNr 140 284 L1+GL shot down by Beaufighter, crashed in sea N Tobruk; Uffz Wolfgang Kramer and three MiA

Sorry about that.

Russell

[Chris Goss]

Thanks Russell. There was a 2nd Ju 88 which crash landed on land but there was only one Beaufighter lost which is presumed to have collided with a Ju 52. Massive over claiming by ZG 26

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by Russell

The German element for 25th October in the Above the Waves Chapter at p 610 was omitted.
Sorry about that.
Russell

Russell
Is that the case for some of the other days as well in this chapter?

There are also a few "oddities" between text and lists.
For example on 25 July 1942, three 252 Sq Beaufighters were chased by German Bf 110 and all
three were damaged, one badly, but in the list they were all damaged by flak...
No German claims are listed.

From about 15 October 1942 it seems some German claims/losses are missing.
Could be British constant overclaiming of course....but surely on 26 and 30 Oct something is not correct?

Must also ask why you have 11./LG 1 loosing a Ju 88 on the 25th when everything points towards
3./LG 1 as stated by Peter?

Cheers
Stig