Looking for Halifax's serial

[roumsetom]

Hello
Would anybody have information on baptized Halifax "Some Chicken"?
It was taken in Rochefort sur Mer at the N°721 mechanical training air force base (France) in 1950.
Regards
Franck

[Terry Maker]

Have you any numbers for the aircraft?

Without one it could be a long job.

The nose art looks Canadian, More than straight laced RAF.

It won't be any of the SOE Squadrons, they weren't allowed nose art so that rules out 138, 148,158,10,102 301 Paf, 1586 Flt, some of 78, and some of 76 Squadrons

if you have any other details get back to me

Terry M

[Graham Boak]

A fuller photograph (and other French MK.Vs) appears in Ken Merrick's new book on the halifax. The aircraft is LL467/O, and previously served with 138 and 161 (SD) squadrons before going to 1586 (SD) Flight in September/October 1944. It does not appear on the strength of 301 Sq, and was handed over to the French on 18 October 1945.

Another photo is of LL392, with a very similar history and a different female artwork.

At least one other Mk.V (LL483), and two Mk.IIs including the brand new JP327 were handed over to the French, but lack noseart in the photos.

I think perhaps you need to rethnk that SOE ruling on artwork, Terry?

[Icare9]

It won't be any of the SOE Squadrons, they weren't allowed nose art so that rules out 138

A fuller photograph (and other French MK.Vs) appears in Ken Merrick's new book on the halifax. The aircraft is LL467/O, and previously served with 138

Just shows you can't be certain about anything!!
Don't you just hate it when someone posts a cropped photo asking for help and then it turns up as a full view with the answer already there?
How come it's got a copyright all over it, when it's in a new book?

[roumsetom]

Originally Posted by Terry Maker

Have you any numbers for the aircraft?

Without one it could be a long job.

Terry M

I'm sorry but I've no serial. They seems to be erased before delevery to the French AF. The only still visible things are the rundel which are English and this noze art. No track of serial on the fuselage.
Regards
Franck

[roumsetom]

Originally Posted by Graham Boak

A fuller photograph (and other French MK.Vs) appears in Ken Merrick's new book on the halifax. The aircraft is LL467/O, and previously served with 138 and 161 (SD) squadrons before going to 1586 (SD) Flight in September/October 1944. It does not appear on the strength of 301 Sq, and was handed over to the French on 18 October 1945.

Another photo is of LL392, with a very similar history and a different female artwork.

At least one other Mk.V (LL483), and two Mk.IIs including the brand new JP327 were handed over to the French, but lack noseart in the photos.

I think perhaps you need to rethnk that SOE ruling on artwork, Terry?

An answer regarding Rochefort's Halifax is given here by Mr Vannier and Mr Fruchard . And they give the same serial like you:
http://www.aerostories.org/~aeroforums/forumhist/aff.php?nummsg=34123

"pour compléter la réponse de René Vannier au sujet des 3 Halifax il semblerait, qu'en fait, il n'y aurait que 2 Mk V: LL392 et LL467, le 3ème étant un GR II serial JP327. "


Thanks to all those who helped me
Regards
Franck

[Terry Maker]

Rethink? No, I don't think so!

All research is theory that is updated, and revised, in the light of new evidence, and as such is welcomed. if someone refutes my theory and shows valid evidence as to why, then I am as happy as they are!

If I got 'Angry' every time someone doubted my research, I wouldn't be much good as a researcher!

The research for truth is not down to "I'm right, you're wrong", (or vice versa), it's that the end result is the truth. (Funny thing, I was going to put 'French' Canadian, and thought better of it!)

To rephrase my earlier statement, and qualify it: In general terms Nose art was 'frowned upon' by superiors in Special Duties Squadrons due to the nature of their missions. Couple this to the fact that many crews in SD squadrons were allocated aircraft on a 'mission' basis rather than as a permanent thing. Hence Nose art was very rare in 148, the squadron that I, and my group research, but this does not mean to say that it 'never' happened.

Another point, is that with an expected life span of just a few weeks with an SD squadron, and with evidence from the ORB's of nightly missions, would they have had time to put it on?

1586 Flt, (later 301 Sqdn PAF), worked 'hand in glove' with several 'SD related' squadrons, they seldom changed the 'livery', on a 'one off' borrowing of an aircraft, but would have changed the livery to the Polish one, and a 'GR-?' ident if the transfer was permanent, and the nose art would have been lost in the repaint.

There is an old Tibetan saying, which sums up the problem nicely: "If you have a thousand monks in a monastery, then you also have a thousand religions"

Terry Maker

[Graham Boak]

Terry, I entirely agree with your principles, and the change from a definite ruling out to a qualified position is all I had in mind. I suspect that a certain laxity in markings matters crept in near the war's end, and perhaps in the Middle East.

I find the short existence of SOE Halis rather surprising, at least as an average. I look forward to seeing the results of your researches someday.

Merrick has quite a lot on the six known Merlin Halifaxes used as maintenance trainers postwar at Rochefort, and the photographs show that the serials were retained, and at least some examples had them repainted in white as opposed to wartime red. JP327 and JN978 were Mk.IIs, LL392 and LL467 were Mk.Vs. There is another unidentified Mk.V, apparently a bomber variant believed to be LL483, and he mentions an existing photo of another unidentified Mk.II.

[Terry Maker]

I have a 'version' of the Halifax serial number register that lists them by final dispersal rather than simple serial numbers, and there are a surprising number of mistakes when several lists are viewed side by side.

A recent one is JP220 shown in one list as 'SOC 12-07-1945' and in another as 'lost august 44, 1586 Flt GR-C' one has to be wrong, but which one?

If you are that interested in 148, why not join the group, I can always send you a privileged invite!

Terry

[Wicky1]

hello all
Has anyone see the nose art on the Halifax "Trusty" large Welsh flag under cockpit, its Captain was funnily enough from Wales and it was his main aircraft for his tour with 148 squadron on SOE missions. I knew one of the ground crew who work on the plane and the bond between the crews, ground and air and the planes became quite strong.
I'll try and post a picture when I find out how to.