Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
  #22  
Old 30th March 2016, 13:25
Andreas Brekken's Avatar
Andreas Brekken Andreas Brekken is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Aurskog, Norway
Posts: 1,494
Andreas Brekken is on a distinguished road
Re: Luftflotte 4 losses Apr.-Jun.1943: a comparison of the different data

Hello, Andrey!

I can check the strength reports.

It is possible that the discrepancies for April is due to spill over from March. I see that the Abgang for March is only one aircraft, while I have three aircraft reported as damaged.

It is of course also possible that they damaged two aircraft (not enemy inflicted) with a damage percentage that did not neccessitate a GenQu report - but that they had to write these off later due to the fact that they were abandoned.

Also - I note that the loss reports for March and April were filed in May, it is possible that some of the reports did not reach the designated office at GenQu level due to the fact that it was a war going on.

Strength reports for Nahaufklärungsgruppe 9 (Verband Ist/Ensatzbereit):

10.03.43:
1./21 10/8
7./32 9/5

20.03.43:
1./21 10/9
7./32 10/4

31.03.43:
1./21 10/6
7./32 11/8

10.04.43:
1./21 9/7
7./32 11/8

20.04.43:
Stab 1/1 Bf 109
1./21 6/4
7./32 6/4

30.04.43:
Stab 1/0 Bf 109
1./21 6/4
7./32 9/6

10.05.43:
Stab 1/1 Bf 109
1./21 10/9
7./32 7/6

20.05.43:
Stab 1/1 Bf 109, 1/0 FW 189
1./21 10/9
7./32 7/6

31.05.43:
Stab 1/1 Bf 109
1./21 9/9
7./32 6/6

These numbers are consistent with the number of aircraft on the end of month dates as reported in the Flugzeugbestand- und Bewegungsmeldungen.

Posting this for now - more to follow on analysis!

Regards,
Andreas B

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrey Kuznetsov View Post
Yet another attempt to define whether the comparison of data in “Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen” with Gen.Qu.6.Abt. returns can help in verifying of the losses level.

In April 1943 only two FW189 units had operated with 17th German army (AOK17) on Kuban bridgehead – 1.(H)/21 and 7.(H)/32 (both under Stab NAGr9).

According to “Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen”, washout (Abgang) on April was:
1.(H)/21: 3 FW189 = 1 due to enemy action + 2 without enemy action [also 1 to tear-and-wear repair]
7.(H)/32: 1 FW189 (due to enemy action) [also 1 to tear-and-wear repair]

Losses in Gen.Qu.6.Abt. returns:

1.(H)/21:
2.4.43 FW189A-3 due to enemy action (90%) and nothing more.
So 2 losses/damages without enemy action are absent

7.(H)/32:
28.4 FW189A-3 due to enemy action (100%)
30.4 FW189A-3 due to enemy action (100%)
(20% damage 17.4.43 and 10% damage 30.4.43 ignored as probably repaired in the unit)
Both 100-% losses dates are correct (confirmed by German army units evidences).

So 1 loss « superfluous» [or it accounted as tear-and-wear].
Maybe «superfluous» loss was accounted in 1.(H)/21 instead of 7.(H)/32 for some reason (for example, crew was from 1.(H)/21 and the plane from 7.(H)/32), but it is strange. And, anyway, the absence in Gen.Qu.6.Abt. returns at least 1 loss of 1.(H)/21 remains unexplainable.

And due to zero losses in both in May 1943 (apart from tear-and-wear repair) it is impossible to explain the discrepancy in April through transfer of April’s losses to May reports.

Looks like some tear-and-wear washouts in «Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen» are losses really.

For the analysis, maybe 10-days strength reports are exists for these units?
__________________
Ahhh... but I have seen the holy grail! And it is painted RLM 76 all over with a large Mickey Mouse on the side, there is a familiar pilot in front of it and it has an Erla Haube!
Reply With Quote
 


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Luftwaffe losses in the east 20-30.01.1945 AreKal Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 36 20th April 2021 15:28
Claims and losses JG51 AreKal Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 5 24th July 2011 08:56
Seeking confirmation of I./KG30 losses from Luftflotte V raid (Driffield) on E Coast England on 15.8.40 and other info on Ju88 losses on that raid. Larry Hickey Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 5 28th February 2011 13:49
NSG 20 Losses Apr 45 Chris Goss Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 1 7th February 2008 22:55
Soviet air force losses 1941-1945 Six Nifty .50s Allied and Soviet Air Forces 12 15th May 2005 18:57


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:38.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net