Response to Glider and Juha.

[Arsenal VG-33]

[quote=glider1;128186]
A fair comment and admit that I don't have any detailed turn rates for the Il 2.

If you don’t have any turn rates, nor for a Il-2, neither for the Typhoon you can at least use some estimative methods. So between numerous factors playing parts in the turn rate (or climb rate) of a plane, ther’e 2 main ones: the wing loading and power/mass ratio.
So for the Il-2: it’s 138 kg/m² and 3.37 - 3.2 kg/hp*
For the Typhoon: 226 and 2.9 - 2.66 Kg/hp** (supposing that Sabre had about 2000 nominal hp for 2200 max)

Once that made, you can see at least there is no evidence, even for ill educated people in mechanics of flight matters, to state wich one should be more agile than the other.

It means that (using approximate formulas) Il-2 probably was a tighter turner (radius, ToT) due to his very low power request (low wing load), even if is power available curve was lower too. Typhoon should be better in verticals due to it’s high power/weight ratio, but it’s high W.L would be a hudge handicap in sustainted turning circles.


* http://www.airwar.ru/enc/aww2/il2.html
**http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/typhoon.html


Concretly, browsing soviet documents and russian forums i can say: ToT was about 22, 23 s for early Shtormoviks, 28 in mid war and about 30 for the late Il-2 tip 3 at 6360 kg (165kg/m², 4.1 kg/hp) and a lot of underwing loads perturbating wing lift capabilities.

I don’t have precise numbers for the Typhoon, but I bet il was close to P-47: about 26 – 30 s at 3034 ft high.

Moreover the Il-2 turn was performed at lower speed than Typhoon's one, so at lower turn radius.





[quote]
Would you settle for as the IL 2 is approx 150 mph slower, 7 ft longer, 6 ft wider, had a loaded weight of approx 2,000lb more, combined with a lower powered engine and wasn't designed as a fighter, its a fair assumption that the IL 2 was a much easier target for AA fire?

Was it 150 mph slower during it's attack at low level? What was the speed used by the Typhoon for this missions.

Have you got valuable statistcs about both planes in their survivability vs german light AA weapons?

Why do you think that Il-2 was exactly as vulnerable to them, than the Typhoon due to it extra size and under-speed.
Why even no more vulnerable, or no less?