ID of Do17P with Z5 Unit Code

[rob van den nieuwendijk]

Hello Larry,

These links might be of interest:

http://www.ww2.dk/ground/hq/iflak.htm

http://www.asisbiz.com/Luftwaffe/aufkl2flak.html

http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/p/16949

http://www.ww2.dk/air/recon/aufkl1flak.html

And:
In Dutch:
Division Aufklärungsstaffel
De divisie had een eigen bescheiden vliegende verkenningseenheid, bestaande uit kleine en grote verkenningstoestellen, die niet alleen luchtverkenning maar eveneens verbindingen moesten verzorgen. Uit Luftwaffe bronnen is enige duidelijkheid te verkrijgen over de globale samenstelling van de eenheid, die volgens verwijzingen in diverse bronnen gedurende de gevechtsdagen (vrijwel) geheel moet zijn uitgeschakeld.
De eenheid was in feite de Aufklärungsstaffel (Fernaufklärung) des II.Flakkorps, oorspronkelijk gestationeerd te Köln-Ostheim. Het was op 10 mei echter volledig gedetacheerd bij het Luftlandekorps en als zodanig in menige bron aangeduid als het Aufklärungsstaffel 7.FD, wat onjuist is, maar wel direct de link met Kurt Student zijn divisie legt. Commandant van het Staffel was Oberleutnant G. Langguth.
De eenheid bestond uit een Korpsführungskette met 6 Do-17M verkenners. Daarnaast was er de verkenningseenheid met 4 Do-17M en de verkennings/verbindingseenheid met 4 Hs-126B toestellen [67: pg 131]. Zo goed als zeker is dat tenminste een deel van de eenheid vanaf 10 mei vanaf Waalhaven begon te opereren. Foto's van een geparkeerde (beschadigde) Hs-126B op Waalhaven zijn overigens ook bekend.
Aan de divisie luchtmacht verbanden - los van de beide grote transportgroepen KGzbV1 en 2 - was nog een onbekend transportverband toegevoegd. Wellicht werd dat onder meer gevormd door de twee Ju-52 voor de verbindingsdienst. Er is geen enkele duidelijkheid te verkrijgen over dit onderdeel behalve dat het door Oberleutnant F. Schäfer werd gecommandeerd.
(source: http://www.zuidfront-holland1940.nl/...fliederung-7fd)



Best regards,
Rob

[Rasmussen]

Originally Posted by Larry Hickey

20 May 1940: Aufklärungsstaffel I Flakkorps Dornier Do17M-1. Lost during reconnaissance sortie, details not recorded. BO Lt
[ ] Engel and one other crewman believed captured wounded, another unhurt – all later released. Aircraft 100% write-off.

Hello Larry,

your a/c was the Do17M-1, Z5 + BH, from Aufklärungsstaffel des Gen.Kdo. 1 Flakkorps. It was shot down in the morning of 20 May 1940 near Reims from French AA guns. The pilot was Ufzz. Edgar Berthold (likely injured because it were 1 1/2 months to his next flight). Take off was in Ochamps (Belgium) at 9.30 am.

Best regards
Rasmussen

[RT]

Could it hv been made prisoner ??

Rémi

[Larry Hickey]

Rob,

Thanks for your additional research. I'll be in touch directly about a translation of what appears to be an excellent Dutch entry. This might even be somehow related to the Do17 and Hs126 destroyed/damaged on Waalhaven AF during the beginning of the Meidagen, which is the subject of a separate post.

Thanks to lots of direct messages from EOE Project supporters, I've now located a photo of a second (different) Do17M? probably also FL during the Western Campaign, which is probably the second one mentioned by Peter C. in his email to me quoted earlier in this thread.

I've also located two photos of a Do17M-1 of this same unit with Z5 codes in the ECPA Collection from 1939-40, which we now have in the EOE DB (some 2200 images). These are ECPA images DAA 609 L14 and L15. These two show a crew about to depart on a mission saluting probably their StaKap. The aircraft appears to be Z5+BH or DH, with the B or D in a medium color (not white). Interestingly, these two film frames are on the same film roll as the well-known "Cafe Archibald" sequence of 3./JG2, from about April, 1940.

Despite the ample evidence for Do17M-1s and a Fi156 carrying this Z5 code during the spring of 1940, and at least two of the former being forced down in probably France, there is still no confirmed connection between this code and Aufklärungsstaffel I Flakkorps. The evidence mounts, but it is still only circumstantial. Who can provide this direct connection based on hard documentation?

Regards,

[robert]

Hi,

elements of I./JG2 were stationed at Frankfurt-Rebstock in early 1940. On the door of "Cafe Archibald" is inscription "Feldberg 1940" - a hill called Grosser Feldberg is a few kilometers NW of Frankfurt and Langendiebach is some 7-8 km E of Frankfurt. Same area and no problem to reach these locations on the very same day.

Regards

Robert

[Larry Hickey]

Robert,

So another bit of circumstantial evidence that the "Z5" code could be connected to Aufklärungsstaffel I Flakkorps, which was based at Langendiebach during the correct period. Makes the case a little stronger.

Regards,

[Don Pearson]

Perhaps a long-shot, but do any carry this emblem:

http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...20100602100105

Don

[Larry Hickey]

Don,

None of these aircraft show any insignia in the available photos.

Regards,

[Peter D Evans]

Just so your aware chaps, Goran/F19Gladiator has posted another former eBay shot over on the LEMB that shows another Do17, this time with what appears to be coded Z5+D? Click here to see this image...

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

[Peter D Evans]

Another update chaps... unearthed again by Goran/F19Gladiator from his archive of old eBay auction images, two Fi156's, one coded Z5+FH and another coded Z5+GH. Both can be viewed via the same link in my previous post

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator