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Old 27th May 2016, 02:04
Andrew Arthy Andrew Arthy is offline
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Re: Erich Hartmann: verifiable claims

Bronc,

A couple of comments.

First and foremost, the fact that Hartmann claimed 352 aerial victories, but that those claims actually resulted in less than 352 enemy aircraft shot down, is perhaps not quite as exciting a discovery as you suggest in your post. Anyone who has done a little digging into victory claims versus actual losses realises that every pilot claimed more enemy aircraft shot down than they actually destroyed. Some were quite optimistic, others less so, but every pilot and aircrew unintentionally overclaimed victories over aircraft, victories over shipping, victories over tanks, etc. The ratio for all theatres, units and pilots is generally two or three claims for one actual loss. Any pilot's 'score' is what he believed he shot down, not what he actually downed. No doubt you already knew this, but I thought the point should be made.

Thus the fact that Hartmann actually shot down less than he claimed is not really news. Hartmann believed he shot down 352 enemy aircraft, he officially claimed them all, and as a result his tally remains 352 victories (even if we can determine that he 'only' actually downed 150 or 220). Ditto for any other pilot who claimed aerial victories during the war.

Quote:
The Hartmann record alone should not be allowed to reflect never filed claims, nearly 50 of them
Official victory claims were being submitted by units right up to the very end of the war (even when surrounded by the Soviets and down to its literal last drops of petrol in East Prussia in late-April 1945, J.G. 51 was still submitting its aerial victory claims to higher headquarters). See the attached, which are Hartmann's claims for 7 March 1945, sent from his Gruppe to Luftflotte 6, and then further up the chain. The idea that the Luftwaffe ceased documenting its activities in 1945 is an oft-repeated myth. In terms of aerial victories, claims were submitted to the appropriate authorities right to the end. What lagged behind was the official confirmation system, which was always a few months behind. In any case, most of the German victory claims submitted were confirmed.

So all of his 352 victory claims were made, submitted to the Gruppe, and then to the Luftflotte and above (except, I assume, for No. 352). As a result, I believe that his official victory claim tally is 352 (or 351?).

It's an interesting subject, and as Nick noted, knowing how many were actually shot down is more important than what either side claimed to have shot down.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
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