Problems with established 2. and 3./StG77 insignia supposedly used during the WC of 1940?

[ChrisS]

Hi ed

My guess is that this is the 8./St.G 77 emblem but is probably scratched or mutilated in some way. Thanks for your thoughts!

Hi Paul thanks for your comments check your PMs.

Cheers

Chris

[trevor baxter]

Ed
please find attached photo of the complete range of emblems for StG 77 , photo taken from "Dora-Kurfurst und rote 13" by Karl Ries.also included is a picture of the badge for 8./StG77 ? which appeared on Ebay some time ago,unfortunately which badge for which staffel is not clear.

Trevor.

[ChrisS]

Thank you Trevor for posting those images. May I ask, is the first image a wartime original?

Thanks

Chris

[trevor baxter]

Chris, as all of the images appearing in the "Dora-Kurfurst" series of books were taken before or during the war period I can only assume this one to be the same.
Trevor.

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

All of the St.G. 77 emblems were first published in Karl Ries, Jr's pathfinding book from 1963, "Markings and Camouflage Systems of Luftwaffe Aircraft in World War II, Vol. I, now long out of print. These show the various unit level emblems pretty much as shown in the Black and White Photo posted above, which is also from one of Ries' books from the period and shows a wartime image. These original Karl Ries-illustrated emblems are identical to what was published by Ketley and Rolfe in their "Luftwaffe Emblems, 1939-1945," which is the reference book most people use today.

This post kind of wandered away from my original question about whether there are good, close-up photos showing some alternative early versions for the emblems of 2. and 3. Staffel, St.G.77, that were possibly used during the Western Campaign of 1940. The standard versions of these emblems don't appear to fit some of the fuzzy photos out there for insignia for these two units. I don't even recall ever seeing a good, close-up photo for the strange bird-head cartoon character indicated for 3 Staffel, on a Ju87B from the mid-1940 period. That's what I'm trying to determine, and is necessary to resolve before we can plan accurate color profiles for those two Staffeln.

Regards,

[ChrisS]

Hi Larry

Sorry again for the 'wandering'.

I have about 20 Ju-87D's with the 3 Staffel cartoon bird emblem but no pictures of earlier marques with the emblem. That said I have this photo of what must be a St.G 77 machine, with an unknown emblem but what staffel does it represent?? Could this be an early 3 Staffel emblem, it's a Ju-87B?

Cheers

Chris

[Larry Hickey]

Chris,

I'm familiar with the photo you posted. I suspect that this is a variant of the 9./StG77 emblem, a diving eagle clutching a bomb (or in this case a torpedo?). I don't think that this is a 1940-period emblem. Also note the mountains in the background. This could be the Balkans early 1941, but I'm just speculating here. Thanks for checking your photo data base for me.

Regards,

[ChrisS]

Originally Posted by Larry Hickey

Chris,

I'm familiar with the photo you posted. I suspect that this is a variant of the 9./StG77 emblem, a diving eagle clutching a bomb (or in this case a torpedo?). I don't think that this is a 1940-period emblem. Also note the mountains in the background. This could be the Balkans early 1941, but I'm just speculating here. Thanks for checking your photo data base for me.

Regards,

Hi Larry

The Balkans would be my guess too, certainly pre-1942 as indicated by the uniforms and equipment of the soldiers. I agree the emblem is similar to 9./St.G 77 but is sufficiently deviant to make speculate on another unit within St.G 77. I can find no reference to St.G 77 being involved in torpedo trials or torpedo dropping so I'm going to to have rule that possible option out.
Meanwhile I have two other unexplained emblems that are similar to emblems carried by St.G 77 i.e. dog-toothed crenellated shields, but I guess I ought to start another thread!

Cheers

Chris

[Larry Hickey]

Chris,

Go ahead and post your unknown StG77 emblems to this thread. They may well be related to the same ones about which I have questions.

Regards

[ChrisS]

Here is the first which I have blown up, does have similarities to the insignia of 7./St.G 77 (second photo for comparison) but is in fact quite different in a number of details that are evident such as a body with a curvy long neck. It could, of course, be an early 7./St.G 77 emblem. The original photo shows a Ju 87B, early war, with a white F on the front of the spats.

I have to get permision to post the second picture.

Any ideas chaps, Larry?

Cheers

Chris