New Ju88 wreck found

[Oxby R]

In my humble experience - this is what Ju88 engines usually look like after being dug up/or prolonged exposure to weather. (not my photo btw - this was taken in Norway).

Anyway - if I'm wrong about the one languishing in Russia, then I'll apologise unreservedly. Assuming the wreckage does turn out to be genuine (and not a hoax) - then it really needs to be recovered..

[Dan O'Connell]

I just retired as an Archaeologist in Oregon state. I never failed to be amazed at the condition of some objects; 100+ year old metal objects especially. Some would be nothing but chunks of rust, while others look like they could be used with a little clean up. There are many factors to preservation.
To me, it looks quite original.

[harrison987]

Oxby...

I have had MANY Me109 wrecks, wreck parts, and engines in my posession, all in various states. I can tell you 100% that the conditions in Russia are much different than in Wales and other parts of Western Europe. And certainly these parts were not in the condition of the pics you sent.

The Ju88 clearly was not dug...

I was told that is how it was found in the forest. To me, it seems more like a junk pile of parts from a Ju88.

I recently saw the top turret to a Panzer II in someone's back yard in Russia...all with original paint...and many other things just "sitting" in Russia. So who knows...maybe some farmer had all the parts sitting around a decided to finally dump the lot many years ago.

Someone I know has a Ju88 tail section that was removed from a wreck in Norway. It still has 90% original paint...and this is after being outside for decades.

This Ju88 is not recorded anywhere. It is clear from the pics that it is 100% original...so in ID needs to be established...if not a hoax

more info will follow

Mike

[Oxby R]

Originally Posted by harrison987

Oxby...

I have had MANY Me109 wrecks, wreck parts, and engines in my posession, all in various states. I can tell you 100% that the conditions in Russia are much different than in Wales and other parts of Western Europe. And certainly these parts were not in the condition of the pics you sent.

The Ju88 clearly was not dug...

I was told that is how it was found in the forest. To me, it seems more like a junk pile of parts from a Ju88.

I recently saw the top turret to a Panzer II in someone's back yard in Russia...all with original paint...and many other things just "sitting" in Russia. So who knows...maybe some farmer had all the parts sitting around a decided to finally dump the lot many years ago.

Someone I know has a Ju88 tail section that was removed from a wreck in Norway. It still has 90% original paint...and this is after being outside for decades.

This Ju88 is not recorded anywhere. It is clear from the pics that it is 100% original...so in ID needs to be established...if not a hoax

more info will follow

Mike

Hi Mike - Can't disagree with any of what you're saying in above post. I've no difficulty in acknowledging some wrecks turn up in various states of preservation. I will also agree your pictures feature parts of a Ju88, and they appear to be 100% original. Some wrecks as you say - are in remarkable condition even after such a long period. You may recall the USAAF P47 'Jug' recovered from the depths of Lake Constance a couple of years ago. The condition was amazing - with original paint still visible under the muck, and no aluminium corrosion whatsoever. Apparently this was down to immersion in fresh water at considerable depth with consequent low water temperature & v low levels of oxygen.. anyway I digress slightly.

Yes, I wouldn't be at all surprised if you're correct - that some farmer perhaps had stored these Ju88 parts for some years in a barn or somewhere before finally dumping them. They do look like the sort of collection which might be more easily transported. But you have to admit this find does beg a lot of speculative questions. Aside of identity details I mean. Where is the rest of the fuselage & wings for example ? And is this the original crash site ? (or just where the collection was dumped ?) As for the engine, well there is no denying she is a beauty - occurs to me - she might even be good enough to restore to running condition. If that's the case - I'll quite happily volunteer to do the engineering works. chuckle.

..but... to imagine these things have been out in the open all that time? Hmm, that beggars belief. But.. ok ok - its not impossible. If indeed that does turn out to be the case - well, then it is a truly remarkable find. I'd like very much to know more. Mike - I wish you the best of luck in your quest to get more details. Incidently - there is no doubt cast over your integrity here whatsoever - I'm just genuinely interested in finding out more as to how those parts got there, and their history. I'm sure there are others who are also following your thread with great interest.

atb richard

Ps A friend of my Dad's ('Moose' Fumerton) kept a rudder from a Ju88 as a war souvenir - he shot it down himself over the western desert in 1942. Apparently he kept it in the loft for years before donating it (and his medals) to a museum in Ottawa, Canada. But for the dust - you'd think that thing was brand new.

[DaveM2]

Guys

No reason at all that this is not an original find, I have photos from a similar, and actually better preserved wreck that was discovered in a wood a few years back in Karelia (wk nr etc still visible), it was also a tail section and wings-engines, but the front was destroyed. Protection comes from the trees growing around the wreck crash site and the canopy that grows above (witness the Fw 190). It would be nice to see further shots of the remains of the front fuselage-if there is any.......

regards
Dave

[Andy Saunders]

I am surprised we are even discussing this as a possible hoax!

Of course it isn't.

I have been recovering wrecks like this for over thirty years. Why a hoax?

I would suggest, though, that the engine has been removed to another location and given some careful attention. The grassy background and the grey blanket cover give the game away.

I would suggest that the bright shiny bits have been exposed after the mag alloy corosion that would have been the rocker box covers and gear housing (there is no trace of this in the engine pic) has been removed. This is generally a white crystaline mass, and the metalwork beneath is often pristine - as here.

If its a hoax I will eat MY hat!

[Maximowitz]

Originally Posted by Andy Saunders

If its a hoax I will eat MY hat!

Oxby comes from Wales. Everything is old and corroded there, including the sheep.

[Larry deZeng]

Oxby, I'm on your side. If these photos are not "posed" or a PhotoShop creation, then why is there no evidence of any vegetation growing up through those piles of metal in the first two photos? After 60+ years, there would be trees, shrubs and weeds sprouting and growing right up through the piles. That stuff was found elsewhere, dug up and cleaned, and then piled where it is before being photographed. The only mystery is the intention of those who did so. Is it an attempt to deceive or was it simply an expedient to pile their findings temporarily in an untidy pile before being photographed?

I'm no mineralologist, agronomist or geomorphologist, but I think I have read that certain layers of permafrost have unusual preservative qualities and metal objects buried within these layers show little evidence of corrosion, even after decades. Could this be an aircraft that came down somewhere south of Murmansk? There's plenty of permafrost up there.

[brewerjerry]

Hi
A they say on the flypast forum...

' will it be at legends '


I agree with Andy.

As to corosion etc, I pulled an access panel out of a hole on the moors some years back it was mint, due to it having sat in fuel/oil for about 50 years, even had the chalk marks still on the inside of it and there was more bits of that quality.

it was rumoured there was a sunken american half track nearby..part of the recovery op..

cheers
Jerry

[markjsheppard]

Nice photos.

I've no reason to think these are not real. The paint has been protected by the forest and cold weather.

Having seen the state of preservation of the Fw190A, Fw189, Me110E, P40C from the tundra - this looks as good. Only magnesium and water do not mix and will cuase these to corrode/disappear - hence no cam covers. Aluminium is generally fine unless moisture has a place to become trapped and evaporates/condenses due to cold/hot weather.

Shame the W.Nr on the fin (touch of white) is not readable otherwise we could work out its loss.

Pic of the P40K in the tundra - Now Ron Fagen's and Oshkosh winner!

regards

Mark