A new picture of Bf 109 G-10 "Yellow 66" at Köthen

[F19Gladiator]

This image shows that the inspection hatch on the fuselage is located as with the Bf109G series and we can hence drop the K-4 theory.

Br
Goran
(image is from an expired eBay auction, cropped and enlarged)

[harrison987]

Hi,

You are confusing Baggage Compartment with Radio Hatch. The baggage compartment is the hatch behind the pilot's head in the cockpit. The radio hatch is one of the fuselage with the first aid kit.

I am referring to the aircraft in the second photo, which does not prove in any way that it is the same aircraft in the first photo (Yellow 66).

As it has a K-4 baggage compartment and NOT G-type, it "appears" to be a K-4 with the secondary gear door covers removed...and not "Yellow 66".

If no evidence exists confirming the 2nd pic (front cockpit shot) IS 100% Yellow 66, then I would suspect it is not - unless one can find a pic that shows both the "66" and this K-4 style baggage compartment (like a 3/4 view from the front), of course...

To date, I have never seen a photo of an Me109 with the K-4 style baggage compartment...or a K-4 with a G style compartment...


Mike

[F19Gladiator]

Dear Mike,
I don't believe I'm confusing the 'Baggage Compartment' with the 'Radio Hatch' as I'm only commenting on the position of the latter as seen on the image of what has to be "Yellow 66", which I've posted above. This makes it a Bf109G with quite some certainty in my opinion.
Br
Goran

[harrison987]

Hi Goran,

I am not questioning "Yellow 66", which is obviously a G-10 based on the first photo.

I am questioing the unknown aircraft in the second photo, that "appears" to be K-4...not a G, due to the baggae compartmenr.

No comment was made on Yellow 66 being a K-4...




Mike

[F19Gladiator]

Ok Mike. I understand
Cheers
Goran

[ouidjat]

What about that picture found here: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...auen#post88510
And another forum:
http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/fo...=1&#entry45297


The "bagage compartment" is not that square....
What about red legs?
What about tires dimensions?
What about tail wheel?
What about the ground sewage which is visible on the three pictures?
What about the canopy we can see on three different places...
How many planes have been found in Köthen? How many Bf109? Following O-Nine caption: two. They are on the picture send by Goran.
What about the dirt mount around the left wheel? it's on three pictures.

Unless the plane's picture shown in front view is not taken in Köthen and until further evidence this last plane is Yellow 66. For me of course! Well, you know me.. .

Regards, Franck.

[Modeldad]

Cleaned up a bit. Is that a work number on the rudder/ If so, it could be 718xxx.

But, is that a small number above and to the left north-west) of the swastika?

[veltro]

Originally Posted by ouidjat

The "bagage compartment" is not that square....
(...)Unless the plane's picture shown in front view is not taken in Köthen and until further evidence this last plane is Yellow 66. For me of course!

The cockpit baggage compartment of the K-4 is much more "square" (it is still trapezoidal, of course...) than the one of the G-10...

Look here to see a couple of K-4 examples and compare them with the example of a G-10 supplied in the previous page...





Thus, the plane visible in the album of the 3rd Armored Division should not be a G, at least as far as that detail is concerned. But all other deductions of Franck can be certainly shared.

So we have a G-10/R2 with a baggage compartment hatch looking like the one of a K-4... on the other hand the location of the plane seems to be the same in both photographs.

It certainly is a a fascinating mistery, but in the end that frontal photo seems to be the third one of "white 66"....

[ouidjat]

Hello Fernandino,

I hope you, and others, understood what I was trying to show with the links I did put in my former post.
The picture I was talking about, taken in Plauen, is supposed to show K-4; if it is then the "Bagage compartment" is not that square.
In the same book, O'Nine Gallery by Hitchcock, P. 50, there is another picture of what is said to be a K-2 (Well it's an old book!) "Luisl" shot down 24.12.44 over Eupen where the "bagage compartment" is not that square. But perhaps it's not a Bf109K...

Still in the same book, P.51, there are three pictures of a 9./JG 77 Weisse 3, a Bf109K-4, whose picture can be found in Poruba & Janda, 1997, too, whose "Bagage compartment" entrance is not that square too... You can see it here http://www.me109.info/display.php?a=e&fid=867

So! Seems to me that not all the Bf109K-4 got that particularity and, by the contrary, it's not because we've never seen it on Bf109G(-10)s that it didn't exist. Or, once again, the three said examples aren't Bf109K-4 at all (Sorry Mr. Poruba)...

And yes Fernandino, as you do, I prefer a "White 66" than a Yellow one.

Of course, taking account of all details I pointed in my previous post, one may understand why I continue to think that the "frontal" one is the third picture of "Weisse 66".

Cheers All, Franck.

[veltro]

Originally Posted by ouidjat

In the same book, O'Nine Gallery by Hitchcock, P. 50, there is another picture of what is said to be a K-2 (Well it's an old book!) "Luisl" shot down 24.12.44 over Eupen where the "bagage compartment" is not that square. But perhaps it's not a Bf109K...

Franck, Ferdinando here (not Fernandino, unless you want to be called "little Franck"...). In fact, "Luisl" is a G-10 built by Erla (the square panel on port side speaks volumes), so it is not a proof.

Originally Posted by ouidjat

Still in the same book, P.51, there are three pictures of a 9./JG 77 Weisse 3, a Bf109K-4, whose picture can be found in Poruba & Janda, 1997, too, whose "Bagage compartment" entrance is not that square too... You can see it here http://www.me109.info/display.php?a=e&fid=867

Seen, and I dare anyone to see anything definitive in that fuzzy image... at least not me, unless I want to see something not visible...



I am not able to see anything clear enough to be taken as a proof in there, but would love to.

This is to say that, while I do respect and agree with the other points you brought to light to sustain that the Kothen frontal photo do show "white 66", I cannot honestly accepts the proofs you brought (in the end, only one single aircraft at the very, very best) about the presence of "G" baggage openings in K-4s.

To me it is simply a matter of clear evidences, not of presumed ones.