A new picture of Bf 109 G-10 "Yellow 66" at Köthen

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Hello Gang,

I just found a new picture of Bf 109 G-10 "Yellow 66", found at Köthen in May 1945:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jharvey...75177/sizes/o/

According to the poster over at Flickr, the W.Nr. reads on the original 770355, which identifies this machine as an G-10/R2 produced by the delocalized WNF Diana Facility at Tisnov.

This plane, from which the first published picture can be found in in Tom Hitchcok's "109 Gallery", was already discussed back in 2007 thanks to this excellent picture found at this link:

http://www.soldiersmuseum.com/pages/...armored-57.htm

Anybody has an info as to which unit this machine belonged?

Cheers
Marc

[ChristianK]

Hello Marc,

I have seen a photo of a Bf 109 from the same unit alongside Bf 109 Werknr. 490137 which landed at Rinkaby, Sweden in April 1945.

Two other Bf 109 G-10/R2 (770293 and 770261) landed at Rinkaby on 12 April, so the one next to 490137 could likely be one of them. The pilots of both these planes had belonged to 2.(F)/122, which is strange because this unit was equipped with Me 410 and was spread between northern Italy and southern Bavaria at that time.

Both of these Rinkaby-109s are listed as being flown to Sweden from Neubrandenburg airfield. On 12 April 1945 this base was occupied by Stab and 1./NAGR 3, so maybe one of these is the parent unit of our particularly marked Bf 109 G-10 recons. But keep in mind that this is only a very loose assumption, as other recon units where in the Neubrandenburg area at this time too, for example 1. and 5./122. Maybe the pilots from Rinkaby had just switched Staffeln within their Gruppe?

Kind regards,
Christian

[S Sheflin]

Great photo Marc,

Can you actually read the Werknummer on its fin and rudder? I show WNF-built Bf 109 G-10/R2 “+66 White,” found at Köthen, as being WNr. 770157 and not 770037. As it is, it is the lowest 770XXX WNr. in my database, and I list none at all with 7700XX WNrn.

Steve Sheflin

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Christian, Steve,

Thanks for your inputs! Christian, a (F) 122 machine would be just fine, explaining the odd position and high number of this machine...

Steve,

I just tried to read it myself; it's a tough exercise as the pic is reversed. After trying, I would concur that the first two digits are 77 and the last three are 355. This overlaps well with the reading provided on a comment posted by the original poster over at Flickr whiere he claims to read with a magnification glass, and not without doubts, the W.Nr. 770355.

Cheers
Marc

[harrison987]

HI Guys...

ummmmmmmm...I have an issue...

The cam scheme on that aircraft is not DIANA from what I can tell. And...as far as I know, WNF produced EXCLUSIVELY the G-10/U4...and NOT any R2...??

Werk number blocks for DIANA were the 612700 to the 613200 blocks...

Am I missing something here? Can someone explain where they are getting the production info from?

Also, the second photo CLEARLY shows an Me109K-4 Baggage compartment (this style was not used on any Me109G, including the latest models of the G-10)...so that would make it a K with secondary gear doors removed...can anyone else confirm??


Hhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Mike

[veltro]

IMHO, I would be a little less categoric and attempt a bit of "reverse engineering"...

77x xxx batches weren't produced neither by Erla (we have very experienced researches - Charles Bavaroise and Jörg Meincke among them - who have found original Erla documents documenting production and deliveries of all the G-10s produced by that factory) nor by MTT (the excellent work of Peter Schmoll documents the whole Bf 109 production of that factory), so what is left? WNF of course.

Further, the fact that camouflage does not resemble that of Diana examples means only that they weren't produced there, but Diana was only a separate production center, this does not exclude at all the G-10/R2 production at Wiener Neustadt.

Last but not least, there are many photographs available of abandoned/wrecked G-10s without the plate/battery cover on the rear cockpit angled "wall", resulting in a trapezoidal hole not necessarily linked to a K-4.

Hope it helps.

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Ah Mike,

You got my heart racing with this K-4 like missing battery cover.... And you're correct about Diana W.Nr. blocks...

Ferdinando,

thanks for your much appraised input; everything seems settled so far; thus it is a WNF machine, but did WNF upkeep a production line at Wiener Neustadt itself? Or were there other delocalized production lines?
Last but not least; no further ideas as to which unit this machine could belong? IS ROA out of question?

Cheers and thanks
Marc

[harrison987]

Hi Fernando and Marc,

The K baggage compartment (hole and hatch), were made in completely difefrent shape than the G. To be honest out of all the photos I have seen, I have never seen a G verson with a K-style baggage compartment.

I do not mean sinply the lack of battery box, but the actual shape and side angles of the hatch and compartment itself. Please share photos of these G-models, as this is something I have never heard of or seen before....interesting...

So...to confrim, not a DIANA bird, but rather WNF itself in Austria...correct?

Mike

[veltro]

Originally Posted by harrison987

The K baggage compartment (hole and hatch), were made in completely difefrent shape than the G. To be honest out of all the photos I have seen, I have never seen a G verson with a K-style baggage compartment.

I do not mean simply the lack of battery box, but the actual shape and side angles of the hatch and compartment itself.

Here's the quoted photo and a detail of a G-10's baggage hole.



At a second, more accurate glance, I do admit there are differences in shape (at least the former is wider and lacks the angled corners on top), differences confirmed by looking at other wrecked K-4, so I agree.

Originally Posted by harrison987

So...to confrim, not a DIANA bird, but rather WNF itself in Austria...correct?

Yes, it has to be. After all, it is a further proof that a complete an thorough study about the late G-series is still to come...

[harrison987]

HI Fernando!!

Sooooooooo...is it possible the 109 in the first photo, is in-fact a K-4, with secondary gear doors removed? Unfortunately, I have not seen the other photos of that aircraft (such as werk number on tail and such)...but for sure that hole is of the K-type...



Mike