Stab/NJG 4 losses on 19 December 1944

[David P. Williams]

Thanks Laurent,

That has cleared up an ambiguous question for me, as i spent some time checking Hans Krause's victory list and log book looking for that victory in August 1942.

It just goes to show that you cant believe all that you read and to check and double check everything.

David.

[Laurent Rizzotti]

I compared David's claim lists above with Tony Wood and Foreman's ones. From the list provided by Andy Fletcher above (I had the same) the 19 August 1942 was wrong, and the two missing kills were those on the night of 4-5 May 1944. By the way only one kill was known for this night in the area (and another over Poland) and I remember having an exchange on someone searching for a shot down bomber this night over Hungary but the known NJG claim was not fitting.

All other 26 claims are listed by both Wood and Forenam. Times and places are not the same than in the logbook for the first kills.

06.10.42 Ltn. Hans Krause: 1 ► 1./NJG 3 Wellington £ Ülzen: 4.000 m. 23.04 Film C. 2035/II Anerk: Nr.44
06.10.42 Ltn. Hans Krause: 2 ► 1./NJG 3 Wellington £ Hageunau: 3.100 m. 23.22 Film C. 2035/II Anerk: Nr.45
30.03.43 Ofw. Hans Krause: 3 ► 1./NJG 3 Lancaster £ 300 m. N. Eilwere b. Münster: 5.300 m. 03.12 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.59

Edited: by the way you can notice also the wrong rank for the third claim.

Best regards

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by Laurent Rizzotti

From the list provided by Andy Fletcher above (I had the same) the 19 August 1942 was wrong, and the two missing kills were those on the night of 4-5 May 1944. By the way only one kill was known for this night in the area (and another over Poland) and I remember having an exchange on someone searching for a shot down bomber this night over Hungary but the known NJG claim was not fitting.

I have a claim of Luetje or Seuss over Poland and a fitting loss of 148 Sqn Halifax. Krause's claims of the night are for Wellingtons!
What do we know about the aircraft he flew?

[Andy Fletcher]

Hi David,

Thanks for listing Hans Krause's claims. That together with the info from Laurent about Friedel Krause [for 19Aug42] helps clear up the misidentification in Krauses'. Like you say it always pays to double check, that's why I queried the inconsistencies in the claim count.

Thanks again for sharing the info from Hans Krause's documents.

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher

[David P. Williams]

Hi Franek,

Krause was flying a Do 217 (9W + ZO) that night and was operating from Parndorf take off 2245 hours on 4/5/44 and landed at 0200 hours on the morning of 5/5/44.

All the best, David.

[Franek Grabowski]

David
Many thanks, last year I have exchanged few mails with grand nephew of one of the killed RAF airmen. I am not sure if there is a photo of this particular aircraft but it rangs a bell. On the other hand I see the claim should have occurred at 2226. Hmm. Some confusion I think.
Do you know who were remaining crewmen of Krause? Any details as to what version of Do 217 it was and was it the same aircraft as flown on 30/31 May?
Perhaps many questions, but it is not easy to find such 'exotic' informations.

[RodM]

Hello everyone,

'just to add to the general confusion, from a ULTRA decrypt from 25/3/45 (via Nick Beale), I./NJG4 submitted (presumably to Stab NJG4) a list of 'established' and 'unestablished' claims by pilots of that Gruppe,

Krause is listed has having "24 established" and "5 unestablished" claims.

Obviously, this adds up to 29.

I am wondering if a formal claim had been submitted for a Mosquito (shot down by his air gunner) on 3.3.45. Krause has noted in his Flugbuch: "Abschuss einer Mosquito?"

Cheers

Rod

[David P. Williams]

Hi Franek,

Krause was flying with his usual crew that day of Kretschmer, Zinn and Specht. There are no other details in the log book as to which model of Do 217 he flew that day. On 30/31 May 1944 he was flying Do 217 (9W + OO).


Rod,

On 3/3/45 Krause took part in Operation Gisela and there is indeed a note in the remarks column 'Abschuss Einer Mosquito?' but it doesnt say which of the crew claimed it.

Shortly after this, around the 10/3/45 it states that his crew were all hospitalized. Does anyone have any ideas about how this occurred. All the best, David.

[RodM]

Hi David,

Specht was wounded during the Mossie attack on 3/3/45 and, indeed, it was he who possibly shot it down from very close range with the rearward MG151. There is a Namentliche Verlustemeldung for Specht's wounding but it is not clear how long he was hospitalised.

Cheers

Rod

[David P. Williams]

Hi Rod,

Does the report mention the other members of the crew as the log book says they were all hospitalised.

Does anyone out there know which Mosquito Squadron was operating that night and may have been involved in this incident. Thanks in advance,