Friedrich Obleser vs USAAF

[Old Charly]

JG 52’s ace Friedrich Obleser claimed that he had several clashes with American units over Romania and Poland scoring two four-engine bombers and seven fighters (June-August 44). However these victories are missing from Tony Woods claims lists. Does anyone have more information regarding the dates of the claims and possible USAAF opponents?

[Johannes]

Hi

Regarding Oblesers claims over the US aircraft in 1944. Asked him about this just before he died, his reply was that yes he did shoot down nine US machines, however he himself was so busy staying alive that he never was around to witness there crash....therefore they were never confirmed. He knew of none of his claims dates as his Logbook was stolen at end of the war by an American. Bernd Barbas gave him a full confirmation list 1-112 on my behalf just before he died.

Regards

Johannes

P.S It should be noted that most of Jg52's claims over US aircraft were never confirmed, none of Batz's or Fonnekold's were, and not all of Lipfert's! Fonnekold's because he himself was killed and nobody could be bothered with the paper work!!!

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by Johannes

Bernd Barbas gave him a full confirmation list 1-112 on my behalf just before he died.

Can you detail us a bit what did you mean by this sentence?
Thanks,

[Johannes]

Sorry if you are refering to Obleser, he was saying that yes he did shoot down US aircraft over Romania, however as he fled the sceen before any crash was witnessed he was not able to get any claim confirmed! My friend Bernd Barbas knew him quite well and quizzed him over this very point just before he died, this reply was "Oh, Herr Barbas, yes I did get some US aircraft(he didn't mention numbers) but I didn't hang around to get confirmation as it was too dangerous to do so" he also added that an American had stolen his log book at the wars end, so he knew of not a single date of any of his 'Kills' Tradition has it that he had 120 victories of which nine were American. Another quote is 127! I sent Bernd a full list from 1st on 28th March 1943 to 112th on 25th October 1944 which Bernd handed him at a re-union a year or two before his death(have the photo if wanted) Jg52's claims on the Micro Films become a little partial in November-December 1944, and as I do not know whether or not he was in combat at this time, my biography gives his total as 112+Ostfront. On 30th December 1944 he was severely wounded when a Panzerfaust he was being trained with exploded, looking at his photo he may a lost a finger or two.

Regarding comments about Batz and Fonnekold none of there claims over American aircraft were confirmed. Total for Batz 233 on Ostfront for Fonnekold 134 on Ostfront. For Lipfert 200~of which two were US aircraft!

Remarkably Obleser was only an Oberleutnant at wars end, but made General post war.

If you need 'the photo' or his abschusse list I would need your e.mail address, as I not sure how to do it otherwise!

Regards
Johannes

[Leo Etgen]

Hi guys

Here is what I have on this JG 52 ace. Please note that I too have it written that he claimed several USAAF aircraft although the new information is that these were unconfirmed. Johannes, could you please look over the text and victory list and suggest revisions where necessary? Many thanks and I hope this is somewhat interesting.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5L275QXT

Horrido!

Leo

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by Johannes

If you need 'the photo' or his abschusse list I would need your e.mail address, as I not sure how to do it otherwise!

Thank you, Johannes, for your comments and clarifications.
I would be very interested in the list with his Abschüsse. You can send it to: denesbernad[AT]hotmail.com
Did he fly over Hungary, too?

Thanks,

[Johannes]

Hi Leo

Have looked at your list. Firstly what you call Nr.47 is a clumsy duplication of 26/03/1943, so you can delete that.
Your Nr.26 I have 0635hrs 7000m
Your Nr.32 I have 1515hrs
Your Nr.34 I have 0846hrs tief
Your Nr.51 I have 800m
Your Nr.55 I have 1500m
Your Nr.60 I have 500m
Your Nr.62 I have 1505hrs
Your Nr.63 I have 3800m
Your Nr.74 I have P-39
Your Nr.82 I have 1353hrs 3000m
Your Nr.91 I have 3800m
Your Nr.94 I have 0553hrs(again no height)
Your Nr.98 I have 1530hrs 2000m
Your 27/06/1944 I have 1940hrs 6000m
Your 22/08/1944 1520hrs I have 2500m
Your 02/09/1944 I have 2500m

We have a big descrepancy from 21/04/1943 until 27/04/1943. Basically the Micro Film for April 1943 is in various degrees of faintness. Each sheet has twenty claims on it, and for this month it is very difficult navigating each sheet. I used a stencil grided out like a Micro film page and filled it in, even then on some pages is was extremely difficult just knowing where on the page you were, however sometimes I was able to work out the unit by the staffel abschusse numbe, and the pilot(especially officers) by rank. Anyway these are mine for him for this period:-
21/04/1943 1057hrs LaGG- 2500m
21/04/1943 1105hrs Il-2
21/04/1943 1106hrs Il-2 tief
24/04/1943 1648hrs P-39 3000m
24/04/1943 1653hrs Il-2 60m
27/04/1943 1603hrs LaGG- 3000m
27/04/1943 1620hrs LaGG-3 3000m
30/04/1943 1450hrs LaGG- 4000m

JG52 were the only unit to use just LaGG-, all other units put down what type of LaGG!

I have worked out about half the crash site from the grid references if your interested....but I would need your e,mail address!

For Oblesers period, there should be nothing missing from the Micro films for this period, therefore you can safely number 1-112. He may have got a few more in November/December 1944, but probably not.

Regards

Johannes

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Johannes

Many thanks for your comments and revisions to the victory list that I compiled for his thumbnail biography. This was based upon Wood's lists and as you point out the original films are very difficult to read therefore leading to various interpretations of the information. I have noticed that Wood is generally very similar to Prien although occasionally there are differences in regards to the times and locations and so which is understandable considering the difficulty of reading the films.

Horrido!

Leo