"Daventry" broadcasts of USAAF + RAF losses

[David N]

Some years ago, I owned a book by Alfred Price about the air war. The title was something like "Battle Over The Reich." This book had an appendix with a table called "Daventry figures." He wrote that the Allied loss figures were broadcast every day by this source and the German accepted them as accurate. As I recall, Price wrote that Daventry numbers or losses was what the Germans called them. I am certain that Price did not speculate why the BBC was giving out the Allied loss numbers.

By the way, American newspapers gave the loss figures. You can look at the microfilm of a major American newspaper of March 7, 1944 and it will list the American losses of the day before as 69 bombers and 11 fighters. Many years ago, I spent a day at a college library copying the numbers from a microfilm reader for the major 1944 raids.

[Don Caldwell]

Thanks, David -- you've got the answer! (And if you're quoting Alfred Price's classic book from memory, you're to be congratulated.) There it is on p. 130 of the 1973 edition -- a summary table of Luftflotte Reich activity for Jan-Jun 44, with a Daventry column which Dr. Price states contains "the losses admitted by the Allies and broadcast over the BBC overseas transmitter at Daventry, figures generally accepted by the Germans as being accurate." So the Luftwaffe commanders had a daily check of true Allied losses, which were frequently much less than those broadcast on the daily Wehrmacht communiqué. The German population was forbidden to listen to the BBC, of course, but the commanders obviously had a "need to know".

Thanks again.

Don

[Don Caldwell]

Hi Rod --

Our messages crossed in the ether. The Koller report sounds much like some that I have, but with Jan 45 data it goes later than most, so I'll need to take a look at it. If it made it to the US, I've got the microfilm -- just need to get my tired eyes ready for it.

Thanks,

Don

[RodM]

Hi Don,

I figure that 'Daventry' may have been used colloquially by the Germans to refer to news and information broadcast by the BBC Empire Service and the BBC European Service.


In terms of losses, I suspect that British policy at least was to only admit to aircraft that were 'missing', and not aircraft that crashed in friendly territory.

Cheers

Rod

[Don Caldwell]

I've learned from the BBC website that Daventry was the site of the first BBC transmitter to broadcast to the Empire (long-wave, then short-wave), & was used for the first radar experiments, but was shut down soon after the war began & the broadcasts split among several new transmission sites. To the Germans, "Daventry" would have been synonymous with "BBC Overseas Service", whatever the literal truth once the war began.

I don't know how the losses given to the BBC were defined, & will never know -- the data are too sparse. But I have enuf info for my needs. Thanks again.


Don

[David N]

Originally Posted by Don Caldwell

Thanks, David -- you've got the answer! (And if you're quoting Alfred Price's classic book from memory, you're to be congratulated.) There it is on p. 130 of the 1973 edition -- a summary table of Luftflotte Reich activity for Jan-Jun 44, with a Daventry column which Dr. Price states contains "the losses admitted by the Allies and broadcast over the BBC overseas transmitter at Daventry, figures generally accepted by the Germans as being accurate." So the Luftwaffe commanders had a daily check of true Allied losses, which were frequently much less than those broadcast on the daily Wehrmacht communiqué. The German population was forbidden to listen to the BBC, of course, but the commanders obviously had a "need to know".

Thanks again.

Don

Don,

I hope I was of help. I bought Price's book around 1975. I gave it away to a public library several years ago because I didn't need it because of your books. Yes, I quoted from memory. Price's summary table of the "Daventry numbers" had always stuck with me that the Germans believed the loss figures the BBC was giving out. They must have taken their claims, compared them with the Daventry numbers and figured out how much damage they were really doing.

I'm looking forward to purchasing your next volume.

David

[Don Caldwell]

David --

We've got this one nailed (with Dr. Price's help). The Daventry figures could have been used to put out disinformation once the Luftwaffe had gained confidence in them, but that is a minor side question. The startling observation (to me) is the difference at that time between propaganda broadcasts by open and closed societies.

Thanks again,

Don

[Sylvester Stadler]

Don:

Years ago I had read that the BBC reported the losses which occured over German-held territory and those which crashed into the sea since the Germans in all probability knew of these losses anyway since they could examine the crashes and that it did not give away any information. These broadcasts did not include crashes in Britain or friendly territory nor did they include the Category E--damaged beyond repair, which could add around another 10% to the totals. The RAF raid on Nürnberg on March 30-31, 1944 comes to mind when a total of 108 aircraft were lost of which 96 were reported by the BBC and which are still reported in many publications.

Another example which has been mentioned is the Berlin raid by the 8th AF on March 6, 1944 which resulted in an additional six bombers and three fighters being written-off. Again few publications mention the additional nine aircraft which would bring the total to 89 lost rather than the 80 announced.

[Don Caldwell]

Sylvester:

Thanks for the additional input. I feel that Category E write-offs should be added to crashes to determine true material losses. It's probably correct that the Daventry numbers omitted Cat E losses and crashes in Allied territory, which would make them 10-20% low.

Don