Pls help with german manual, Soviet a/c silhouettes, 1941

[Evgeny Velichko]

Hallo gents!

Found this images in web:





J-61 (looks like MiG-1 with removed pilot canopy)
J-26 (MiG-3)
J-16 (I-16)

I am extremly interested in images showing "J-17" and "J-18", as it was seen by germans...

Also - "Seversky P-35" and "TB-7", "Vultee" and other products of imagination of Luftwaffe investigation...

Many thanks for ANY possible help!

[Andy Fletcher]

Hi Evgeny,

I believe the I-61 corresponds a MiG-1/MiG-3 and the I-26 designation to the Yak-1

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher

[stephen f. polyak]

Not the reply, let alone question, to be expected, but can anyone identify the font used on the recognition charts above?

Thank you,
Steve

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by stephen f. polyak

Not the reply, let alone question, to be expected, but can anyone identify the font used on the recognition charts above?

Thank you,
Steve

This perhaps?

[Evgeny Velichko]

Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher

Hi Evgeny,

I believe the I-61 corresponds a MiG-1/MiG-3 and the I-26 designation to the Yak-1

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher

Actually, yes, Yak-1 prototype name was I-26, but...

Looking on drawing, I see directly MiG-3, not Yak-1!

I thought, germans called Yak-1 as "I-17"... But what was for LaGG-3? And what was "J-18"?

[Andy Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Evgeny Velichko

Actually, yes, Yak-1 prototype name was I-26, but...

Looking on drawing, I see directly MiG-3, not Yak-1!

I thought, germans called Yak-1 as "I-17"... But what was for LaGG-3? And what was "J-18"?

I agree the I-26 plan as shown doesn't look much like a Yak-1.

I think the I-18 was an incorrect German designation for the MiG-1 and they used I-301 for the LaGG-3.

[yogybär]

Vultee would mean a Su-2: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vultee_A-31

When you look at claims: All these wrong names were only used in 1941, when Germans didn't know what types were used by the VVS. Similar to Russians claiming Heinkel-100 and so on.

PS: I have a german identification booklet "for 1943" with 3D-views for most nations. It already includes that "the IL2 may have a rear gunner", but also the still the R-10 as Reccon...

[Evgeny Velichko]

Jorg - I have many "J-17" and "J-18" claims of SKG210, and trying to identify them...

Do You know what does that mean - J-18 and J-17?

[RolandF]

The informations in those identification booklets Jörg is talking about are based on the knowledge gained through pre-war experiences, shot-down and examined examples and of course by secret intelligence work.
Thus any (wrong) information about prototypes and propaganda information may appear in those official identification prints.

First, in German writing "I-17" is the same as "J-17". (The written stroke "J" - like in "JG" e.g. would be longer)
The Polikarpov I-17 was a prototype with an inline engine from 1934 obviously thought to be operational
http://www.aviastar.org/air/russia/pol_i-17.php
obviously significating the early LaGG and MiG fighters
The I-18 might have something to do with the Polikarpov I-180 and I-185 prototypes with radial engines, obviously, and thus would mean mean the La-5 fighters. I am sure the Germans did not know about the LaGG, Jak and MiG designations after 1940 (LaGG-1 starting as I-22, Jak-1 as I-26, MiG-1 as I-61) and the situation in the unfortunate Polikarpov offices.

The "I-" was a producer-independant anonymous USSR designation comparable to the US "P-" designation.

Hope this helps

Roland

[yogybär]

Evgeny, I am sorry. But as my booklet is for 1943, all those wrong names are corrected and you only find real soviet names.

Anyway, here is what I did in my analysis of the claim lists:
I-18 ==> I-16
I-17 ==> typo? Put them into I-16 (my be a bit cheap solution…)
I-26 (Yak1)
I-301 (LaGG-3)
I-61 (=MiG3)

I-180 is difficult, as from combination of type,date&location, there are cases which "must" mean I-16 and others which "should" mean LaGG-5...