Code Letters for St.G 76

[Doolittle81]

Originally Posted by Peter Cornwell

Peter,

The S1 unit code on Ju87s of I./StG76 during May - June 1940 is well documented in photographs and was perpetuated on their redesignation as I./StG3 in August 1940.

Do you happen to have a link to some of these photos,or to a resource where I can hunt them down? I could use them in a project I am working on.

[Doolittle81]

Originally Posted by ChrisS

Hello Peter E & Peter C

I have a photo of an St.G 76 Ju 87 carrying the 5M code. Perhaps 5M was given to Wekusta 26 when St.G 76 was swallowed by St.G 3?

Cheers

Chris

Could you possibly post a link to that photo or EMail it to me? As I mentioned in my earlier post this date, it could be very useful in a project I am working on.

[Doolittle81]

Originally Posted by Peter Cornwell

With respect to Peter Evans the unit codes for I./StG76 were actually S1. F1 was carried by the Do17s of KG76.

It gets confusing. I have found many references to F1 being the code for St.G 77...and also to the same code used for Stt.G 76. For example http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...hen+5M&spell=1 However, I still can't find a reference for 5m being used by St.G76.

So, now I'm leaning towards St.G 76 being F1 until it was redesignated St.G 3 and moved to Bulgaria/Greece using Code S1, then changing to S7 when moved to North Africa/Libya

[Pieter H]

Gents,

an interesting puzzle, let me give it a shot.
To start, I think there is a lot of confusion, misquoting and wrongly copying in all this.

A few facts (I think):

• There are pictures of Stukas in the French campaign carrying the S1 code and the I./StG76 emblem (I have at leadt two of them)
• F1 was during the entire French campaign the code of Do17Z's of KG76
• III./StG77 carried the F1 code + II. Gruppe letters after July 1940
• There were apparently losses of Stukas coded F1 + II.Gruppe letters during the French campaign (see Rosch)

Furthermore Rosch Luftwaffe Codings and Markings gives the codes of I./StG3 (formed 7-1940) as formally S7 but with a lot of S1 used too.

My interpretation is therefore the following:

1. I.StG76 used S1 as mentioned by Peter Cornwell and confirmed by losses and pictures. It used the standard I.Gruppe Staffel letters B,H,K,L.
2. This group was renamed into I./StG3 in July 1940, where the old aircraft continued to use their S1 code until written off. There are further sources confirming that Hptm Sigel of I./StG76 took his crews and took command of I./StG3. All/most new aircraft got the regular S7 code. All S1+ losses mentioned in Rosch carry indeed only I.Gruppe Staffel letters, consistent with point 1. above
3. The F1 code belonged to KG76 during the French campaign. However, halfway the campaign the II. Gruppe was withdrawn and started to convert from Do17Z to another type, probably the Ju87. This is confirmed by the Ju87 Osprey book of John Weal, although he erroneously talks about the I. Gruppe. All Stuka losses in Rosch only use II. Gruppe codings (C,M,N,P). This withdrawal of the II. Gruppe is also made plausible by the loss list in Rosch, which shows a clear gap of II. Gruppe losses during the time it used Do-17Z. [Rosch, by the way, makes his story very complicated by trying to explain how at the same time I./StG76 and II./KG76 were using the F1 code. I think for once Rosch is wrong here.]
4. What is not clear to me is whether this reformed II.(St)/KG76 has operated its Stukas before July 1940 as suggested by the losses in Rosch of Stukas coded F1. This would imply an unusually fast conversion of the crews from heavy bombers to dive bombers. I can only explain such a scenario if fresh crews that had been training on the Stuka took the II.(St)/KG76 unit code while the II./KG76 crew started conversion to probably the Ju88.
5. By July 1940 the II.(St)/KG76 unit became III./StG77, taking the F1 code with them, still only using the Staffelletters C,M,N,P of the original II. Gruppe.
6. The use of 5M by Stukas is not confirmed by any source I have, so I would simpy discard that as an error.

Well, so far my theory.
Hope others can confirm or correct.

Pieter

[Doolittle81]

Very informative post, Pieter! Thanks.

I am helping on a project involving a WWII Stuka pilot (92 years old). He has provided a photo of his aircraft based on Crete in 1941 which still depicts his Code letters as S1-BK. What you are saying is that his aircraft simply stayed with the same Code letters from May of 1940 through a least fall of 1941. Ultimately, it seems that when I/St.G 3 moved on to Libya, and he upgraded to a JU87D model, he used Code letters S7-KL. It all makes sense. The key factor is that the St.G76 aircraft kept the 'old' Geschwader code letters even when the Geschwader was renamed as St.G 3 and a new Code Letter group was assigned (S7).

Thanks so much!

A related question: Are you saying that an aircraft with Code letters S1-BK would be 1st Staffel of I.Gruppe of St.G76 (and later St.G3)? I believe that our Stuka pilot recalled that he was in 2nd Staffel with that set of Code letters.

[Peter Cornwell]

Thank you Pieter. Sanity restored.

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

I can confirm that the code for I./StG76 was "S1," based on many photos. The photos, at least through the end of the FC, are unequivocal about this, as several show both the unit code and the unit insignia on the same a/c. I've seen no evidence for the "F1" code on a I./StG76 aircraft prior to the end of the FC. I also agree with Pieter's assessment of what happened after the FC, when parts of the unit became I./StG3.

Regards,

[Doolittle81]

All mysteries solved! I have now been able to review the Flugbuch of Heinz, our Stuka pilot friend. We now know, with absolute certainty, that when assigned to 2nd staffel I/St.G76 in France, his first Stuka was S1MK. He was shot down on 12 May flying that aircraft. He then was given S1DK which he flew (only) from 13 May '40 through December '41, prior to and after creation of St.G3. When St.G3 moved to Bulgaria and later engaged in Greek and Crete campaigns, Heinz flew a variety of aircraft..S1BK, S1DK, S1EK, S1GK, S1KK, etc, based in Greece and Crete. Unfortunately, Heinz only has his first Flugbuch which ends on 1 June '41, so I don't know when in North Africa he shifted to S7. Evidence elewhere indicates he was shot down on 11 Nov '42 flying Ju87D (D-3?) S7KL.

Thanks to all who helped me investigate this matter.

[Doolittle81]

Originally Posted by Larry Hickey

Hello,

I can confirm that the code for I./StG76 was "S1," based on many photos. The photos, at least through the end of the FC, are unequivocal about this, as several show both the unit code and the unit insignia on the same a/c. ...

Regards,

If you have photos of S1GK or S1DK...or S1BK...in fact, any 2nd staffel (K) aircraft would be useful for my project.

Thanks

[Larry Hickey]

Doolittle81,

I have photos of <S1+AK, S1+BK and S1+KK, all most likely photographed during the FC. If you contact me on the Private Message Board with your personal email address, I can probably send you scans of some of these photos.

I have no photo at present of Migeod's S1+GK shot down on 12.5.40, but would certainly appreciate a copy if anyone has one.

I have a copy of Heinz's FB, but would appreciate a better quality copy of it. Perhaps we can make a trade.

Regards,