587xxx Arado-produced Fw 190 production date

[Roger Gaemperle]

Hello,

I am trying to find information about the Fw 190 587xxx W.Nr.-block produced by Arado, Warnemuende.

It appears to have been the main producer of the F-8 variant (besides Norddeutsche Dornierwerke, Wismar).

Does anybody have information (e.g. from flight logs or loss lists) that indicates the time frame when this block had been produced?

Thanks,
Roger

[Seaplanes]

The Fw 190 series with 58 as the first two digits, is a series of Fw 190F-8 built by Arado Warnemünde (hkz) with deliveries commencing in March 1944. By the end of November 1944 a total of 2044 aircraft had been built. Deliveries continued beyond this date, but unfortunately no data is avalilable to me. I have no aircraft in this 58---- series with 587 as the first three digits. The series rund from 586--- and start again with 588---.

[John Beaman]

Seaplanes, my records agree with you.

Roger: where did your information come from?

[S Sheflin]

Greetings all,

I show the following Fw 190 F-8s from the Ar-War 587XXX series in my database (Type-WNr.-Location):

F-8 587??? Lippstadt
F-8/R1 587108 Lippstadt
F-8 587111 Lippstadt
F-8 587122 NN
F-8 587137 Flensburg-Weiche
F-8/R1 587708 NN
F-8 587803 NN

Steve Sheflin

[Roger Gaemperle]

Hello Seaplanes, John and Steve,

Thank you for all the information. My information is from Monogram Close-Up 8 page 30 where a photo of the F-8 W.Nr. 587108 that also Steve mentions can be found.

I have two more original photos from 587108 that came from different sources. They both have wartime captions on the backside. One says the location was Namur, Belgium while the others says "near Dusseldorf".

Dusseldorf is about 150 km away from Lippstadt and Namur about 300 km. Steve, do you know why the location of 587108 and 587111 is given as Lippstadt (maybe there is a more reliable reason for it like an Allied captured material report?).

Seaplanes, do you have information about when the 586 and 588xxx series were being built? With such information one could infer the prodution time range of the 587xxx range assuming that it was done in-between.

Regards,
Roger

[Seaplanes]

Unfortunately, I have no dates for the two production runs you are looking for. I have W.Nr. 582095 lost 5.8.44 with Flugzeugüberführungsgeschwader 1. This could indicate that the 587 series came late in 1944. I have 588022 lost 2.1.1945 with 1. Ungarische Schlachtstaffel/102.

I still find it odd that no aircraft with W.Nr. in the 587 series were reported in the losses lists for February and March 1945. I have dozens in the 586 and 588 range.

[S Sheflin]

Hello,

I am aware of the references averring that Fw 190 F-8 WNr. 587108, “48+ White” was found at Namur, Belgium. However, I think that Lippstadt has become its consensus location.

First, I can find no CEA (Crashed Enemy Aircraft) report for “48+ White.” One would think that if it were found “earlier” in Belgium, a technical evaluation team would have documented it.

Second, Jim Crow has multiple views of this aircraft, the majority of which cite Lippstadt as its location. Interestingly, several of these photos indicate that it was surrendered intact and later flown by US pilots. Does anyone have photos of it in its US guise?

Third, low hills are present in the background of several of my photos of “48+ White.” Are there any hills near Namur, Belgium?

Steve Sheflin

[Roger Gaemperle]

Hello Seaplanes,

Thanks for the dates of the 582xxx and 588xxx airplanes. Maybe, not many F-8s were produced in the 587xxx block and therefore only few are known.

Hello Steve,

Interesting information that the plane was surrendered intact and later flown by US pilots. Jim Crow's photos - that indicate Lippstadt as the location - show it still complete and apparently intact. Later photos - also the ones I have - show it with some disassembled components (e.g. canopy) and jacked-up. Presumably even later photos show it sitting on some stones and wooden supports. See e.g.

http://www.130thgeneralhospital.com/germany.htm

I believe that it indeed was found at Lippstadt (by the way, do you mean that it was flown in by a German pilot or captured at Lippstadt when you write "surrendered intact"?) and may then have been flown to Namur (for whatever reason) by a US pilot.

If you look at the locations where the 130th General Hospital was stationed, you won't find Lippstadt, but you will find Namur (http://www.130thgeneralhospital.com/ardennes.htm#Top). The photos I have were from the 180th General Hospital and also state Namur as the location.

But that would of course mean that it was flown there in German markings, which is not that likely.

Regards,
Roger

[ClinA-78]

Hello Roger,

If you wish, you can send me, by PM, your picture. Be aware that I wouldn't do any use (and copy) of it and send it to third party. It is not my kind of conduct as it is a matter of truth. Or, if you prefer, you may send it to me when your book will be published.

Best regards

ClinA-78

[Roger Gaemperle]

Hello,

Maybe I found a clue to the final destination of W.Nr. 587108:

If you look at the following photo from the 130th General Hospital website:

http://www.130thgeneralhospital.com/130TH_DIAGRAM.jpg

you will see in the middle left part some baracks and a "captured ME-109". Now look at:

http://www.130thgeneralhospital.com/...man_ME-109.jpg

Note the filename "German_ME-109.jpg" and the barack to its left. The next photo show it from the other side:

http://www.130thgeneralhospital.com/...red_ME-109.jpg

Note the baracks in the background and the roof of a larger building in the background.

That all fits together and it may well be that this is the final destination of White 48. Ciney was not far from Namur (28km), but a smaller town than namur. Maybe that was the reason why on my photos the location was indicated as Namur rather than Ciney.

Still the question remains, how and why it was brought from Lippstadt (about 300 to the east of Ciney) to Belgium. Lippstadt was only captured at the beginning of April 1945 when - I assume - the 130th General Hospital has left Ciney already. So, somehow this does not fit together....

Any clues or comments?

Thanks,
Roger