German Claims in Poland 1939

[Franek Grabowski]

Marius

Originally Posted by Marius

stay cool! I don`t want to attack anybody. I only want to say, Skalski had evidently colorized the later report - so the question is how many else did (is a generous problem to all nationalities). Nobody is perfect!

Skalski over the war never colourised his reports. All his claims, but two - one damaged and one probable, from the Battle of Britain can be linked to the German losses. His later claims cannot be all verified because of losses of documents on the German side. There are several his 'claims' that were not claimed by him due to lack of evidence, I think a total of about five or more aircraft. One Skalski's claim was downgraded although it seems it is confirmed by the German losses. Another was not credited to him by no apparent reason.
A very important point is that all the reports filed in 1939 are the reports done just after the sorties. Most of the surviving ones, eg. from RAF or USAAF that are known to researchers were wrote by IOs a few days after actual sorties. There is no comparison.

According to the Bf 110 on the photo. I suppose it was the aircraft flown by Major Huth transferring with his unit to Griesslienen on the 4.9. The Bordfunker Josef Schauster was talking about this accident in Jägerblatt many years ago. The damage is indeed considerable. And apparently the aircraft was on fire as stated by Schauster.

The photo does not show any trace of fire. It shows considerable damage to the fuselage but I cannot say it was enough to consider it as a write off.

You believe that I./ZG 1 lost on 2.9. more aircraft than found in the actual known documents. So how will you explain the only total loss of 12 Bf 110 for the period September 1939 as documented on many other staff levels?

I do not believe anything. I expect you to nail down the aircraft shot up by Skalski. As long as you cannot do it, I do no take your comments that nothing happenned to it.

I will list these aircraft below (total losses):
2.9. 1 Bf 110 of I./ZG 1, 2 Bf 110 of I./ZG 76
3.9. 3 Bf 110 of I.(Z)/LG 1 (1 to German Flak)
4.9. 1 Bf 110 of I.(Z)/LG 1, 1 Bf 110 of I./ZG 1 (Huth landing accident)
6.9. 1 Bf 110 of I./ZG 1
7.9. 1 Bf 110 of I.(Z)/LG 1
9.9. 1 Bf 110 of I./ZG 76 (accident?)
17.9. 1 Bf 110 of I./ZG 76
12 at all, 3 in accidents or by friendly AA fire. No place for more totally destroyed Bf 110`s.

How about aircraft of Hammes and Nagel? Were they write offs or not? Hammes' aircraft looks almost untouched, I have seen more damaged aircraft returned to flying condition.
There is also a photo of burned out Me 110 taken from an overflying aircraft, have you identified this one?

[G. Warrener]

Hello

I only received Cz II yesterday (herzlichen Dank) so I have not had much time to read it, and have it undermine everything I have accepted to date....

With any bombing - there will always be the matter of collateral damage.
The bombs which fell on the Villa Centros at Anin-Otwock on the 1 Sept, 1939 killed 7 children and injured 25 more. They were Jewish & handicapped.

Their future had ceased on 1st September 1939 - despite the Luftwaffe.

Graham

[Dénes Bernád]

Is this one of the Bf 110s damaged over Poland in Sept. 1939 (from eBay)?

[Franek Grabowski]

Graham

I only received Cz II yesterday (herzlichen Dank) so I have not had much time to read it, and have it undermine everything I have accepted to date....

With any bombing - there will always be the matter of collateral damage.
The bombs which fell on the Villa Centros at Anin-Otwock on the 1 Sept, 1939 killed 7 children and injured 25 more. They were Jewish & handicapped.

Their future had ceased on 1st September 1939 - despite the Luftwaffe.

For many the future ceased on 1.09.1939. For those currently living in Poland too.
I suppose your comment was provoked by the claim Luftwaffe never bombed civilian targets. Obviously, family flats were not the ones.

Dénes

Is this one of the Bf 110s damaged over Poland in Sept. 1939 (from eBay)?

It is 2N+IH of Maj. Hammes downed on 6.09.1939 over Warsaw. According to Marius it is 100% loss but for me it is almost undamaged and likely was repaired and thus should not be included in a total of 12 Me 110 written off in the Polish Campaign.