Very intereseting Bf109G-10 at e-bay

[Cpt_Farrel]

This interesting Bf109G-10 was by Peter Evans and posted over at the LEMB. It haven't sparked much interest for some reason although it is one very curious aircraft.

Notice that it has the panel below the windscreen pointing towards an Erla-built G-10 yet there's bumps on the lower enginecowling. The undercowling seems to stand out colorwise so it could be a replacementpart from a WNF or Mtt.Regensburg G-10. The topcowling seems to be mismatched as well though.

http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-Mes...#ht_500wt_1154

Cheers! / Anders

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Anders,

Agreed, this machine is highly interesting. Before reading Ferdinando d'Amico's thread on the peculiarities of Erla's Bf 109 G-14/AS production over at LEMB, I would have concurred with you for an Erla G-10. The mix between the big 56 liters oil tank (higher filling cap), chin bulges on the lower engine cowling, flat canted panel below the windscreen and tall tailwheel strut are all consistent with the points presented by Ferdinando for recognizing Erla produced Bf 109 G-14/AS.

http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/fo...=1&#entry54606

According to the subsequent reply by Jean-Claude Mermet in the same thread, only 135 Bf 109 G-14/AS were produced by Erla in the following WNr batches:
WNr 460322-460371
WNr 460645-461378

As for its camouflage, I think it is much more straightforward then it seems; the lighting conditions make the left underwing very dark, though the edge of the radiator stands out in almost the same hue as the lower cowling RLM 76. As for the fuselage, please look at the dark RLM 81 zone on the top of the fuselage around the cockpit. The fuselage skin underneath seems to be heavily stained by the exhausts, but there is no indication for having been a different colour then RLM 76, also obviously used for the right underwing.

You will finally notice the shining paint zone at the front of the upper engine cowling (where the oil tank filling point is). Could this be consistent with the 1945 style yellow nose band seen on the JG 52 machines operating on the Eastern front?

Cheers
Marc

[Rasmussen]

The machine wasn't an Erla produced G-14/AS ... the tall tailwheel strut speaks against it.

Best wishes
Rasmussen

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Ah, Rasmussen

Thanks for the pointer. Where do we have a security excluding Erla G-14/AS's with tall tailwheel strut? Any published source for that?

Thanks in advance
Marc

[Cpt_Farrel]

Not sure about the tailwheel but I was under the impression that Erla built G-14/AS's didn't have lower cowlingbumps? Eberhard Gzik's Red 2 "Rita" Didn't have it neither does Black 2 "Peterle" of JG4.

Cheers! / Anders

[veltro]

Sorry to intervene, but I was somehow already put in this thread...

AFAIK, I agree with Andres, as one of the identifying peculiarities of the Erla-built G-14/ASs was the lower nose cowl devoid of chin bulges, so the first two "foreign" elements toward the ID of the plane in the photo as an "Erla G-14/AS" are the lower cowl and the tall tailwheel... but there is a third element, namely the higher oil filler cap which was typical of an enlarged annular nose oil tank.

Now, it is true that many "normal" G-14s produced by Erla showed such an oil tank, but this would be a "first" for their G-14/AS, in addition to the fact that the rectangular plate would be another "first" for the G-14/AS, which lead us to square one...

Maybe a possible (and maybe simpler) explaination for this aircraft could be a typical Erla G-10 which had received a replacement lower cowl adapted from an MTT G-14/AS probably due to some accident. After all in units the two types lived together and, although the Erla G-10 had an enlarged lower nose section that part could probably be adapted to fit.

Obviously, we have to rely on theories, because certainty on such versions is still hard to achieve...

Hope this helps

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Anders,

Thanks for correcting me regarding the lower cowlong chin bulges, I misread Ferdinando's very precise description.

Ferdinando,

I always appreciate your analysises, the more do because you bring with them this do necessary relativity between theory and unit-level practice

Cheers
Marc

[Cpt_Farrel]

Thanks for your opinion there Ferdinando, seems as if we agree on the replaced undercowling. (I wasn't sure it would fit, but again, why not?)

As for the Erla-built G-14/AS. I thought that they did have the higher fillercap for the oiltank? The pictures of Eberhard Gzik's "Red 2" doesn't show the cap itself but the placement of the stencil seem to indicate the higher placement. EDIT - The picture I have at hand doesn't show the cap in enough detail, I know there's a better pic showing the nose in more detail so maybe someone else can tell?

Also, how many photos of Erlabuilt G-14/AS are there? Apart from Gzik's "Red 2" there's Black 13 flown by Oblt Scheufele of JG4.

Then there's a picture in Priens book on the Bf109 on page 159 that is said to show "White-21" Wrk.Nr 130282. Looking at the camoflage though, I'm quite convinced that it's wrong. The aircraft in that picture is almost certainly built by Erla judging from the paintscheme. As the enginecowling isn't seen it's not possible to say wether it even is a G-14/AS or a regular G-14.

[veltro]

Originally Posted by Cpt_Farrel

As for the Erla-built G-14/AS. I thought that they did have the higher fillercap for the oiltank? The pictures of Eberhard Gzik's "Red 2" doesn't show the cap itself but the placement of the stencil seem to indicate the higher placement. EDIT - The picture I have at hand doesn't show the cap in enough detail, I know there's a better pic showing the nose in more detail so maybe someone else can tell?

I hope you can forgive me, but you are right and I was wrong speaking of the oil filler cap (maybe holidays relaxes too much...). As a matter of fact, the higher oil filler cap was almost a trademark of the Erla production since the G-14 (I once posted about the lack of info on the Erla G-14 production and the peculiar choice of the bigger 60l annular oil tank mated with the DB 605A, but nothing emerged...) and it was there also on the G-14/AS built at Leipzig.

A proof of that is the nose of "Rita", which is documented with three photographs in the fantastic double volume of J-Y Lorant and Richard Goyat on JG 300. Here is Gzik under the nose of his aircraft which clearly shows the high oil filler cap...



Hope this helps

[John Beaman]

My old friend Ferdinando is correct about the Erla G-14/AS. Its lower cowl was modified in a similar manner as its G-10 to accomodate the oil recovery lines and larger heads of the 605/AS. Since the heads were not as deep as the 605D the change may not have been as severe. As to why Mtt chose to use the cowling "bumps" on its 14/AS, it was probably, as mentioned, simple commonality with the soon to come 605D installation in the G-10. After all, the "normal" lower cowl from the G-1 on was basically the same so it was easier for Mtt to add those bumps instead of a whole new lower cowl, ala Erla. After all, Mtt built a lot more 14/AS machines than did Erla.