JG 301 or ... JG 5 ?

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Ok, JG5 seems not to be the best possibility...

Note: In Kagero book about JG 301, authors write that chevron4 was pictured at Hagenow airfield...

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Cross post Kjetil!

So let me thanks for replies and for this great and supposed unpublished photo.

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Hi !



When Laurent (ie: gibsonfndr ) ask me on private email my feeling about those 2, I answer they were probably more from JG5 than JG301 but without strong arguments, at least not enough to come yet on the board to ask you about. But well, since he open the tread I must thanks him for the pressure to work earlier than planned on the problem.



So coming back from a night reunion, I spent the rest of the night, up to 5am when my wife wake up asking for the silly man to sleep a little LOL, to finally conclude that we are really facing two airplanes from JG5!

One is ‘blue 9’ (W.Nr. 737938 ) from 12./JG5 the other is ‘chevron4’ from Stab II./JG5, (engine motor serial 339786).



Excuse me if I seems sometimes rude in the coming explanations it just to make replies shorter.



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1- JG5 got spiralled nose

Ø not a valid argument since it’s the same for JG301



2- JG5 got Eismeer badge on their port-side

Ø who told you there isn’t an Eismeer badge on those two on port-side?



3- JG5 got colored front ring blue or white

Ø who told you ‘blue9’ doesn’t have one?

Ø ‘chevron4’ is a Stab airplane so can’t get a staffel white nor blue front nose ring!



4- ‘chevron4’ is not a valid marking into JG5

Ø Wrong! ‘chevron4’ is not a valid marking into JG301! Actually JG5 keep chevron marking during all the war, and even a ‘chevron3’ marking is known in III./JG5 in 1943. On the other side when RV appears JG301 changed his chevron Stab markings for twenties ranging digits in groups and 1 to 16? numbers in Geschwader.



5- U.S. troops never saw a JG5 airplane since they fight on South Europe

Ø Same apply for JG301 airplanes since JG301 operated mostly in North-West Germany, I./JG301 ending with Hagenow then Leck airfields, the near available airfield to Norway from Germany, definitely in British sector to!



6- They are more probably from JG301 than JG5 except we find their W.Nr registered in JG5

Ø Well, W.Nr. 737939 from 9./JG5 is registered at Herdla among Luftwaffe airplanes left in Norway 10.8.45. So why not 737938 also into JG5 ? ( Source: http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/1945/werk.html )

Ø In Sq Sgnl walk around, ‘chevron4’ is thought to be a Fw 190F since there is not outer wing guns nor traces from removed ones > good their was ‘F’ model registered among Stab II./JG5 when none is known in the whole JG301!



7- Inverted fuselage bands is common inside JG301

Ø Wrong! None is known for sure up to know! The one from experten Decals is educated guess only, the photo is of pretty poor quality and my guess is that their published red band possibility is far better than the internet correction with an inverted JG301 red/yellow band.



8- III./JG5 Fw 190 must have a circle over the fuselage band

Ø Wrong! III./JG5 Fw 190 were transferred to II./JG5 in 1945 and none from the few I saw got the III./JG5 circle painted over the bands (we don’t speak about Bf 109 which had it)

Ø On the contrary, I will say that I./JG301 Fw 190 usually had a white horizontal painted over their RV!

The very few known JG 301 Fw without an horizontal bar are:

- two brand new D-9 from II./JG301 with bright RV painted from the previous day without doubt the horizontal bar will be quickly added,

- and two found in South Reich when the main unit was stationed on North: one is Fw 190A ‘yellow17’ found at Pilsen , and the other is D-9 ‘yellow or blue 15’ apparently without horizontal bar and found at Straubing, could they have been non operational aircrafts like JG301 school unit?

- perhaps a ‘blue8’ but I lack information…



9- Black is never grey on B&W photo and can’t be in the same tone as blue or red.

Ø WOA!! Please don’t repeat that again! Dusty fuselage Balken Kreutz are most often in grey tones and with reflects black could even be white! We must remember that B&W film react more to the light intensity than to the light tone (except of course orthochromatic film with yellow/red tone), and that yellow filter was of common use to make clouds visible.

Ø Look to this 2 examples they both show French MS 406, the usual aspect is blue lighter than red but sometimes blue is darker!







10- It’s more easy to add a red band in front of the yellow one if airplanes come from the JG11

Ø Arg, wrong again! Look to those two photos: JG11 got their yellow RV painted sometimes pretty large without need to paint a red one over the front part more than over the rear one, or most often a narrow yellow one is painted but near the fuselage cross so it would be easier to add the red band on the rear place !







Conclusion:

After digging the subject, to say those 2 airplanes can’t be from JG5 just because the black stripe from ‘blue 9’ looks to grey for you to be black is certainly not a valid enough assumption to convince me that they are from JG 301!

So what about you?