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Old 29th December 2010, 00:19
heraldcoupe heraldcoupe is offline
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Question Fw-190 sub-types used in Mistel composites

I have an ongoing modellling project which has raised a few questions, hopefully some members of this forum will be able to help with an answer (or an advised opinion!).

Studying numerous images of Fw-190s as part of Mistel composites, I noted that none of the aircraft appears to have any guns fitted in the wings. This seems to be borne out by the Imperial War Museum's Werk Nr. 733682, which was captured as part of a Mistel. I have seen this aircraft described as an Fw-190A-8/R-6, though I don't know if this is an accurate designation. I was unable to find any details of the R-6 installation, was this related to the wing armament?

Having read that several different sub-types of Fw-190 were used as Mistel control aircraft, it seems unlikely that all were coincidentally devoid of the guns.

Were the Fw-190s modified to a common armament state before use in Mistels? Or were they selected from a pool of aircraft which already lacked the wing guns?

Cheers,
Bill.
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Old 29th December 2010, 02:16
Leo Etgen Leo Etgen is offline
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Fw 190 sub-types used in Mistel composites

Hello Bill

It is my understanding that the R6 designation meant that the aircraft had the provision to be fitted with a pair of 21-cm W.Gr. 21 rocket tubes under the wings which were supposed to be used to break up the American four-engined bomber formations so that the defending fighters could attack separated and thus vulnerable bombers. These rockets were also used in the ground-attack role on the Invasion Front. The image below is of a Fw 190 A-8/R6 of I./JG 26 deployed in such a fashion. In all likelihood the wing guns were removed from the Mistel components simply to decrease weight. I hope this helps you.



Horrido!

Leo
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Old 30th December 2010, 01:38
heraldcoupe heraldcoupe is offline
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Re: Fw-190 sub-types used in Mistel composites

Hi Leo,

Thanks for the R6 details, it confirms my thoughts that this was not associated with the lack of inboard guns at least.
The routine stripping of guns to save weight was the logical conclusion I had come to.

I notice also that 733682 has the cowling gun troughs faired in, but it retains the shell ejection ports under the fuselage. I think it's fair to assume that this was a post-war modification, but are there any known photographs of 733682 from around the time of capture?

Cheers,
Bill.
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Old 30th December 2010, 14:40
Leo Etgen Leo Etgen is offline
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Fw 190 sub-types used in Mistel composites

Hello Bill

It is my understanding that as this was a trainer rather than operational version of the Mistel it was normal for the guns to have been removed to save weight including the cowling mounted MG 131 machine guns. I have no idea if the fairings were added post-war but I do know that when the machine guns were removed from the Fw 190 A-8/R8 assault fighters it was normal to add the fairings so quite likely these were fitted prior to capture. Concerning photographs of this Mistel component before it was repainted, the available information that I have seen is rather confusing as to which aircraft are actually depicted in the photographs of the examples captured by the British. I have seen various photographs of a Fw 190 A-8 paired with a Ju 88 A-4 which I am posting below and others of a Fw 190 A-8 paired with a Ju 88 G-1 with a glazed nose. Interestingly, the spinner of the upper component of the first Mistel is identical to that of the Imperial War Museum example so perhaps it is the same aircraft.




Horrido!

Leo
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Old 30th December 2010, 15:30
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ju55dk ju55dk is offline
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Re: Fw-190 sub-types used in Mistel composites

Bf 109 was paired with Ju 88A and Fw 190 with Ju 88 G. This was an engine issue.

Junker
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Old 30th December 2010, 17:50
Leo Etgen Leo Etgen is offline
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Fw 190 sub-types used in Mistel composites

Hello Junker

I am aware that the Mistel shown in the above photographs was a composite of two different types assembled by the British for exhibition in September 1946 thus explaining why the Fw 190 A-8 is paired with a Ju 88 A-4. The question is if the fighter shown is Fw 190 A-8 (W.Nr. 733 682) or Fw 190 A-8 (W.Nr. 733 759)? Most sources state that the above photographs show the latter fighter but the spinner is identical to that of the Imperial War Museum example. Of course, as this aircraft was repainted several times it is quite possible that particular feature was added later. Here are photographs of the other Mistel that was captured by the British.



Horrido!

Leo
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Old 9th January 2011, 01:35
heraldcoupe heraldcoupe is offline
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Re: Fw 190 sub-types used in Mistel composites

Apologies for my recent silence, I've been a little preoccupied with (planned) surgery on my hands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Etgen View Post
Here are photographs of the other Mistel that was captured by the British.
Assuming the references I have are captioned correctly, this aircraft was captured near Karup. The Ju-88 is superfically a G1, but it has the glazed nose of the main bomber variants. I have seen images of this type described as a Ju-88H, however the standard fuselage length doesn't bear this out.
Am I being reasonable in suggesting these were in fact G1s, modified with the glazed nose for improved visibility in their Mistel training roles?

Cheers,
Bill.
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Old 9th January 2011, 08:27
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Re: Fw-190 sub-types used in Mistel composites

Yes the glass-nose were fittet when used in the training role, and also in transferflights. However it could be changed with a warhead with a few hours work. All 3 Mistel captured by RAF was found at FlH Tirstrup/DK. They belonged to 14/IV/KG 200.

Junker
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Old 9th January 2011, 13:56
heraldcoupe heraldcoupe is offline
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Re: Fw-190 sub-types used in Mistel composites

Thanks Junker, good to know I'm not barking up the wrong tree,

Cheers,
Bill.
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