possible USAF F-84 or F-104 shot down near Strasbourg?

[Bill Walker]

That sounds like Sabre 23655 of 421 Squadron. Any information you have woudl be welcome.

[Flyingkag]

Bill,

What the old man explained I met there on Lichtnebreg is an amazing and terrible history;

It seems that the (canadian) pilot had bailed out over Luxembourg (I believe) because the jet had apparent engine troubles.

Then the Sabre followed his flight without pilot, eastern, for a long trip.

He arrived over the Vosges mountains and flow over the town of Lichtenberg and then followed his way eastern, in the little valley between Reipertswiller and Rothbach.

The old man explained that the plane arriving at the eastern end of that little valley (about 3 miles eastern from Lichtenberg) suddenly turned 180° back and flow western till he arrived directly over the village of Lichtenberg where it crashed on a house and burned, killing to civilians.

As he explained that to me, he seemed to think that it was "as if someone would have pulled on the commands" and ordered that it had to go back and crash there.

Terrible history...and destenies

I never have searched in the 1960 newspapers (because I'm intersted about WWII pilots and crashes) but sure it must be something here in our local newspaper archives about that drama.

I just know that history because I asked that old man for 3 years ...about the other one crash (our possible F-102).

I at first had believed it was a P47 Thunderbolt crash site (because of the olive painting and USA(A)F star on the part I found), as I found some parts there for some years in the forest.

Did the (canadian) pilot of the Sabre survive?

[dp_burke]

Are these lists of any use?
http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/A...Type/F-102.htm

and

http://cgibin.rcn.com/jeremy.k/cgi-b...&content=F-102

54-1378 (86th FIW, 496th FIS) crashed due to engine failure Aug 22, 1960 at Saint-Jean-de-Niost,
France. Pilot killed.

What might be nearest town or village to the Convair crash?

[Bill Walker]

Had to dig a bit for the Sabre pilot:

Flight Lieutenant H.H. Schoning ejected at 1,000 feet, and survived. I think this is Harry Schoning, who has retired from the military and now lives in Idaho. He currently owns a DHC Chipmunk that is seen regularly at North American air shows.

[Flyingkag]

Thanks very much to you both;

Yes , all these informations help or could help;

I will try to learn the exact date (and allreday year/season) of the F-102 crash in the nearst villages; it could be usefeull!

Thanks for the Sabre pilots' name; do you believe those history details could interest him...or just bring sad old memories back!

His "alone 180° returning jet" did two civilian victims in village...but sure that was not his own "fault".

Thanks for having helped...

Mathias

[Kutscha]

The Sabre crash occurred on Dec 5 1960. Cause of the crash is stated as a jammed control column.

[Flyingkag]

thanks you all,

I didn't find "my" local crashed F102 in the lists you gave; I 'll let you learn if I can identify it with a possible date of the crash.

Cheers

mathias

[Carl Schwamberger]

Originally Posted by Flyingkag

Bill,

What the old man explained I met there on Lichtnebreg is an amazing and terrible history;

It seems that the (canadian) pilot had bailed out over Luxembourg (I believe) because the jet had apparent engine troubles.

Then the Sabre followed his flight without pilot, eastern, for a long trip.

He arrived over the Vosges mountains and flow over the town of Lichtenberg and then followed his way eastern, in the little valley between Reipertswiller and Rothbach.

As he explained that to me, he seemed to think that it was "as if someone would have pulled on the commands" and ordered that it had to go back and crash there.

..........

The controls of these aircraft were remarkably stable under some circumstances. Still a 180 degree or lesser turn is not impossible. Here is a similar incident in the US just a few years later.

http://www.f-106deltadart.com/71fis_...ing_580787.htm