Korea- November 1950

[JoeB]

The encounter between MiG's and Leyte's air group was Nov 12, not 13th, as both sides agree. Also Philippine Sea F9F's encountered MiG's again Nov 10 as well as Nov 9. The specific circumstances of the 'F-80' and 'F-51' claims on the 10th are an obvious match with Philippine Sea's air group combat reports, and don't match detailed handwritten USAF operations logs available in this period. The MiG pilots themselves didn't necessarily make these recognition errors. The most original Soviet reports of this period are often vague about the types of a/c, but some decision had to be made for the permanent official versions. In one case in November 1950 a higher level report had actual F-51's engaged ID'ed as F-84's, or F-82's! F4U/AD's were sometimes called 'carrier Thunderbolts' in initial reports, but that type doesn't appear in the final official victory lists for the Soviets.

Likewise the Soviet process for official victories at the start is a little 'fuzzy'. For example there were claims for prop a/c made in the Nov 9 combat v USN in the original reports, and more than 2 jets including 'F-80's claimed in the USN combat and other real F-80's claimed in an afternoon combat. Also on Nov 10 when the B-29 was actually downed, what were believed to be escorting 'carrier Thunderbolts' were claimed too (USN F4U-4P recon flight in the same area) and there were other claims v B-29 formations and F-80 escorts. I counted 29 claims made in November 1950 by the MiG's mentioned in their combat reports.

OTOH 'US admitted' implies (to me) there's something else 'not admitted'. IMHO this is not a good phrase for objective air war historians to use, with regard to anyone's loss statistics, unless they can present the specific evidence of the things 'not admitted'. Claims made on one side are not, by themselves, evidence of losses on the other side, in any air war, IMO. The records sources in this period are really good (on both sides) and no US a/c were even possibly lost in air combat, by any evidence in then-secret US records AFAIK, except RB-29 44-61813 wrecked in crashlanding after MiG damage Nov 9 (note no strategic recon a/c losses were included in 1953 Stats Digest loss table, but they're clear in the records), and B-29 45-21814 shot down outright Nov 10.

I believe Clyde Whaley was the F-80 pilot who downed the MiG Nov 11, first USAF jet pilot to down another jet where the loss is also reflected in opposing records. The F-80's had been strafing ground targets almost all the time and it wasn't thought worth it to carry gun camera film, so he was lucky his claim was even accepted as 'probable'. But the time of Whaley's claim best matches the MiG loss, based on both sides' records.

Joe