Jagdwaffe's Opponents in the Polish Campaign

[Peter S]

Originally Posted by Nick Hector

On September 5th, Hannes Trautloft claimed a "PZL P.43" that has been matched to the loss of a P.23B of 32 ER, whose crew were all KIA.
Are you able to help me with that one?

Nick,
PZL-23B Karas no. 44.55, shot down over Wylazlow, near Turek
Crew: ppor. pil. Adam Kandziora (killed), plut.pil. Czeslaw Kruszewski (killed), kpr. A/G Kazimierz Tyrakowski (tried to bale out, killed)

P.S. Mr Emmerling, I'm not so sure that Nick can read in Polish Even so, i wouldn't recommend your books as the best source of knowledge about Polish losses.

[Marius]

Well Mister Peter S, you must not understand in Polish but you can find the opponents Luftwaffe versus Polish AF there and make your own conclusions. I mean there is no other source giving you the information in this "bright way".
Additionally I would recommend some books with detailed Polish personnel losses, but the language is Polish...

[John Beaman]

OK, guys, play nice. No personal comments.

[Nick Hector]

Gentlemen,

I am most grateful for ALL help rendered regardless of whom it is coming from. To that end, many thanks to Peter S (please refer to the personal message I just sent you. As stated, I will email you in the coming days to share some info with you).

Marius, any chance your work might be published in English anytime soon, I am sure that they would be of interest to me, no matter what. (It is correct that I can speak English and German but not Polish)

I share John Beaman's sentiments: Let's play nicely because like I said above, ANY help is good help and disagreement is no good cause for disrespect.

[Nokose]

I looked at the comments in post#11 and since no one has had any answers before on Polish AF losses there most be newly "dug up" material. So did Hannes Trauloft actually shoot down PZL-23B Karas #44.55 (is this the plane serial number?) piloted by Adam Kandziora [KIA] (What was his rank?) on 05Sep39 over Wylazlow? I don't read Polish but would like the source.

[Recceswind]

In my opinion it should be ppor. obs. Adam Kandziora (ppor. - it has the same meaning as German Leutnant; obs. - it means that he was an observer/navigator).

44.55 is in fact a serial number. This PZL was delivered to 32. ER in August 1935.

[Peter S]

One of my sources states erroneously that he was a pilot. Despite that Kandziora graduated from Deblin AF College as an obserwator –observer, he also had basic flying experience. He flew gliders previously, and what is also very interesting, the day before he died, he actually took controls of Karas, when its pilot por. pil. T.Szymonski was wounded.
32 ER lost three Karas’ on that day: No.44.109 (two airmen killed, one DoW), No. 44.122 (two airmen killed, one slightly wounded) and mentioned before No. 44.55 (all three killed).
Polish podporucznik was an equivalent of Pilot Officer or sub-lieutenant.

[Nokose]

Thank you both for the answers. So was Kruszewski the actual pilot? Still is this the one shot down by Trauloft? The source for this work?

[Recceswind]

Kruszewski was a pilot, Kandziora was an observer and commander (in the Polish Air Force it was a rule that an observer was also a commander).

[Peter S]

Originally Posted by Recceswind

(in the Polish Air Force it was a rule that an observer was also a commander).

I wouldn’t describe it as a ‘’rule”. It is known that Polish pilots were mostly NCOs, so it was obvious that observer (an officer), with longer training and higher education was commanding the crew. But we also know that on several occasions it was a pilot who commanded the crew, when pilot was in rank of kapitan and observer was porucznik for instance.
A good example could be the crew of Karas from 31 ER, with kpt. pil. Nikonow (Eskadra’s commander), ppor. obs. Szczepanski and kpr. A/G Zemler.