Ship losses to aircraft

[Carl Schwamberger]

Are there any on line sources for ships lost to aircraft attack? I am trying to do a quick & rough estimate of the effectiveness of German aircraft vs Allied cargo ships in the Atlantic & Med. A source that braks down the numbers into some detail would be nice.

Thanks for any help in locating this

[Nick Beale]

You may find convoy.web helpful and there are files at the National Archives that would help regarding the Mediterranean. If you have the name of a ship it's surprising how often there is an online source either about the individual vessel or the company it sailed for.

[Carl Schwamberger]

That one wont be quick but thanks anyway. Perhaps I can make time later & count ship by ship. meanwhile I'll hang on to the hope that the Brits did a analysis/summary & it lurks on the web somewhere

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Yes, this data exists. One table available on the Web is there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Losses_...tic_(1939-1945)

Sources listed are books, not WWII-time reports.

Please note that "sunk by mines" shipping is counted twice. I mean that the "total sunk shipping" does not include this number, probably because the shipping is aslo counted on the U-boat, air or raider figures depending who put the mine in place.

Despite the title I'm not sure if these figures are only for the Atlantic. They certainly include actions off Great-Britain, and possibly raiders and U-boat attacks in Indian Ocean.

I also find the air attacks figures for late war strange: 7176 tons sunk by air attack in May 1945 ? This figure is corresponding to one Liberty Ship but it seems to me that by this date the Luftwaffe was no more active against Allied ships.

[Carl Schwamberger]

Thanks for this

Originally Posted by Laurent Rizzotti

Yes, this data exists. One table available on the Web is there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Losses_...tic_(1939-1945)

Sources listed are books, not WWII-time reports.

Its a start. If I pursue this far enough the sources can be investigated. In the mean time I can make some checks of the gross numbers against Ellis 'Brute Force' or Hughes & Costello 'The Battle of the Atlantic'. Both have quarterly totals.

Originally Posted by Laurent Rizzotti

Please note that "sunk by mines" shipping is counted twice. I mean that the "total sunk shipping" does not include this number, probably because the shipping is aslo counted on the U-boat, air or raider figures depending who put the mine in place.

That is not made clear in the other books I've looked at. Was the mine laid by submarine. aircraft, or surface ship???

Originally Posted by Laurent Rizzotti

Despite the title I'm not sure if these figures are only for the Atlantic. They certainly include actions off Great-Britain, and possibly raiders and U-boat attacks in Indian Ocean.

I also find the air attacks figures for late war strange: 7176 tons sunk by air attack in May 1945 ? This figure is corresponding to one Liberty Ship but it seems to me that by this date the Luftwaffe was no more active against Allied ships.

A a wild guess this may have been in the North Sea, perhaps on the approach to Antwerp. There were still a few aircraft operational in Norway & Denmark in May as well.

I notice that in April 1941 the losses to aircraft are larger than to submarine. If accurate this is interesting as the submarine losses are not trivial.

[Carl Schwamberger]

Bekker 'Luftwaffe War Diarys' seems a bit uneven on detail, and perhaps a bit dated. Any recomendations for books on the GAF vs Allied ships?

This web site has extracts from several books. The wide variation in some numbers is interesting

http://www.usmm.org/battleatlantic.html

[DuncanM]

You also have to look at the number of sorties required to achieve those losses.

[AndreasB]

I think that particular story is quite well told in Neitzel.

All the best

Andreas

[Observer1940]

Originally Posted by Carl Schwamberger

Are there any on line sources for ships lost to aircraft attack? I am trying to do a quick & rough estimate of the effectiveness of German aircraft vs Allied cargo ships in the Atlantic & Med. A source that braks down the numbers into some detail would be nice.

Thanks for any help in locating this

Hello Carl

TNA, Kew, has the Daily Shipping Casualty Lists reported to the Ministry of Shipping Intelligence Branch in Board of Trade BT 347/1. Ships name, date, whether enemy action etc. I saw it two days ago.

It is a thick, narrow volume with 5 or 6 ships listed per page.

I was looking for aircraft incidents and notice incidents with shipping are recorded in the War History cases Volumes in ADM 199, see also ADM 1 and ADM 116.

But you will need to find the ADM Subject Code for shipping.
Code 2 = Accidents and Casualties to HM Ships
Code 3 = Actions with the Enemy
Code 5 & 19 = Accidents and Disturbance to HM Ships
Code 29 = Boards of Inquiry
Code 31 = HM Ships Damage and Loss
Code 90 = Aviation [e.g. aircraft attack on convoy in 1940 was under Code "90"]

You can usually find all the Admiralty filing Codes (including the above) by typing in the word for example "Ship" or "ship*" (or the subject required), the years in the "Year range" and in the "Department or Series" type "ADM 1" on the TNA Catalogue and the filing code is usually bracketed in the catalogue descriptions returned in ADM 1.

Then look in ADM 12 paper indexes and look for the DIGESTS section, then look for the year you want and order for example the Digests Volume which covers the Admiralty number subject Code 90 (being Aviation) for that year.

For example, for 1939 / 1940 the Digest (covering Aviation - Code 90) would be:
ADM 12/1752
Digest 72-90A
[the above TNA Cat number in the ADM 12 paper / online index, must cover the Admiralty Code number 90 in the number range in the description]
Dates Covering 1939 to 1940


You will get a huge Digest volume like an index covering your subject Code and usually other adjacent Admiralty Subject Codes, the example above covers all the subject Codes between 72 to 90. These digests have brief reference to each incident.

If you want to delve deeper, it is possible in most cases to trace each original Report from the Admiralty file reference number or War History Case number. (This is lenghty process looking back in the TNA paper indexes, because if the online TNA, catalogue show no return, it might because you have not entered the original Naval reference or War History Case number exactly as the PRO originally entered it in their computer.)

Having said that, the Digests themselves in ADM 12 for the year and Admiralty subject Code number can be a rich source of information, without the need to trace the TNA Catalogue number for the original Admiralty report reference. The Digests are huge and have many pages to look through.

Each Digest volume is in number order by Subject Code, so go to where 90-1 starts and 90 is further sub-divided under various title subjects. It sounds really complicated, but once mastered there is a rich source of information in the ADM 12 Digests and ADM 1 (searchable online).

The ADM 12 Digests can lead to further information amongst the cases in the ADM 116 and ADM 199 volumes, which each hold many cases etc.

I like the suggestion, to find someone else who has already done the analysis!!

Mark

[Andrew Arthy]

Hi,

Morten Jessen and I have recently posted a document to our company website that lists Allied ships sunk or damaged by Axis aircraft in the Mediterranean in the summer of 1943. Please go to this page and scroll down to download it: http://airwarpublications.com/articl...lated-material

Cheers,
Andrew A.

Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com