Pearl Harbor's Missing Aircraft - 7 Dec 1941

[JeffK]

In reply to Alex's comment "While I beleive your website is a good one I feel that your aims re the recovery of those airmen while honourable, is it not better now that they be left where they are,
and let to sleep in peace, undisturbed. Even their most closest relations must by now have passed on"

I believe the United States Armed Forces have made a commitment to ensure that every effort is made to return the mortal remaind of its Soldiers (Sailors & Airmen) no matter at what cost or period of time.

In OZ we get an excellent coverage of the work undertaken in Papua New Guinea by CIL-HI (Central Indetification Laboratory - Hawaii)

[David_Aiken]

Originally Posted by JeffK

I believe the United States Armed Forces have made a commitment to ensure that every effort is made to return the mortal remaind of its Soldiers (Sailors & Airmen) no matter at what cost or period of time.

Aloha Jeff,
Good points! This task is due in big part to the widows of Vietnam veterans still missing and the campaign they made to bring their loved ones home. I noted the effects in my own search, from about 1969. Prior to 1969 folks did not know the term "MIA".

In OZ we get an excellent coverage of the work undertaken in Papua New Guinea by CIL-HI (Central Identification Laboratory - Hawaii)

Yes, Brian Bennett (the New Guinea, New Britian representative of JPAC-CILHI) is doing an excellent job. He and I have corresponded since 1983. He had been roaming the jungles at that time for various civilian plantations, etc, and finding aircraft while doing his job...he now tracks aircraft crashes for JPAC.

The US Army set up the Identification Lab in Hawaii after a move from the Orient. Johnie Webb was a mere Captain when my mother (a hospital nurse) took care of his mother in 1975...which introduced me to him and his commanding job. Johnie led CILHI until he retired from the military, and now is the top civilian at CILHI...this organization was taken over recently by a combined services unit called "Joint POW-MIA Accounting Command (JPAC)". The facility in Hawaii is still the central location for identification of suspected military human remains. http://www.jpac.pacom.mil/

In 1981, I got a phone call from the Army's Casualty and Memorial Affairs Branch (the former CILHI's direct boss) in Washington DC. In this most friendly call, he was concerned that I was using the term "MIA" as applied to World War II deceased personnel. He told me that the term "MIA" is like a pay scale for widows. As long as the loved one is declared "Missing", the widow gets money. Once the person is declared "Body Not Recoverable", that pay stops. Then it really "hit" me that I understood why the widows raised such a ruckus...money!

For some light reading on one "BNR" from Pearl Harbor: http://www.flightjournal.com/article.../sterling1.asp

Thanks for your interest, Jeff!
Cheers,
David Aiken

[JeffK]

I also see regular articles in "FLIGHTPATH" magazine submitted by various "Pacificghosts" staff.

(The stories my parents tell about the destruction of Australian Aircraft at Tocumwal would make your stomach turn.)

[Alex Smart]

Helo David,

Thanks for the reply.

I have looked but cannot find all 12 serial numbers for the B-18's as you suggested IIR that they are there in the appendix.

Have looked at appendix C and can only find mention of 30 B-18's plus 2 other B-18's details unknown. Some 33 being reported.

Those 32 noted being -
2; 3; 4;31;32;33;35;36;37;50;
51;52;53;54;62;63;64;76;77;78;
79;80;81;82;83;92;92;93;94;95;
?; ?.
Two "92"'s being two different aircraft.

I can only find serial numbers for 7 [3;32;37;51;82;92;95] as previously mentioned of the 12 destroyed.

Are the other 5 serial numbers in the documents ?

Thanks

Alex

[Alex Smart]

Hello Jeffk,

Thank you for the reply.

What was meant on my part was that the 7th Dec 41 people should now be let to rest in peace.

I made no mention of those lost in other conflicts, simply because this thread was about the Pearl Harbour Losses.

Alex

[JeffK]

And my answer was that US Armed Forces used every resource available to find these people.

I used the PNG efforts as an example.

PS The conflict in PNG was the same one as Pearl Harbor, you know, WW2

[vzlion]

Regarding aircraft losses, IIRC one of the PH investigation reports had an appendix with a complete list of all US aircraft lost during the PH attack. Sorry I don't remember which one.
Another point I was stationed at Kaneohe 1964-65 when there was still a lot of PH survivors around and there were still bullet marks in some of the supply department buildings. I was told by several of the local civilians that all the Japanese aircraft were gathered up and dumped in a crater at Kaneohe. I assume this was after they were exploited by the intel people. Don't kinow if it's true, but that is what I was told.

Walt

[JeffK]

Juha,

My understanding from "Bloody Shambles" is that the Japanese records where just that, a shambles. In addition to overclaiming they also didnt record their own losses accurately.

A number of the Australian claims are verified as the aircraft crashed on the land, harder to confirm are those which were claimed over the sea.

What numbers do you have for Japanese losses, from memory (I'll find the book again) the Australian (& British) claims were not all that many.

[Alex Smart]

Hello David,

Any idea as to the serial numbers of the 39 P36A's ?

Alex

[David_Aiken]

Hi Alex,
I am quite interested in learning the serial numbers. When ever anyone has access to such aircraft cards...please tell me, too!Thank you for bringing up this ommission in my records!Cheers,David