Rare Bf 109 K-4 photos

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Hi folks,

shifting through Wydawnictwo Militaria 042 devoted to the Bf 109 K, I was glad to see two previously unknown to me Bf 109 K-4 pictures.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream
This machine is objectively identifiable thanks to the aft positioned D/F loop as a K-4, found in May 1945 at Peenemünde.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream
Nothing else is known about this fascinating winter camouflaged Bf 109 K-4 "Schwarze 468", beyond the time frame (Winter 1944 - 1945).

Any ideas on which units did use those machines? Where was the Winter camouflaged K-4 photographed?

All inputs warmly welcomed!
Marc

[Phas3e]

I dont think I have ever seen an 605AS or D engined 109 in winter camouflage, very interesting find

[Marc-André Haldimann]

The only other I know about is seen taking off in a February 1945 Wochenschau, the same one which also depicts the almost nosing over Fw 190 D-9 "Gelbe 2".

Cheers
Marc

[Charles Bavarois]

Hello Marc,

sorry, but both aircraft may not be K-4s.

The a/c at Peenemünde has the deep cooler under its nose, but is lacking the chin-bulges. It also has the DB605 with a large blower as you can see from the the broad fuselage weapon cover. This points towards an Erla built Bf 109 G-10.

The a/c with winter-camo is a Gustav. Look at the place of the FuG 16 loop just ahead of the "4" and "6" of the code. A K-4 should have the socket on the spine just in front of the Balkenkreuz. A long tail-wheel-strut is quite common on earlier type Gs at training units, as it made landing and starts much easier. On 15.06.44 the change of the tail-wheel on a/c at the training-units on behalf of special orders from O.b.d.L. was announced.

HTH

Carl

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Ah Charles,

Thanks for your knowledgeable pointers!

Could "Schwarze 486" be also a G-10?

Cheers
Marc

[veltro]

Originally Posted by Charles Bavarois

The a/c at Peenemünde has the deep cooler under its nose, but is lacking the chin-bulges. It also has the DB605 with a large blower as you can see from the the broad fuselage weapon cover. This points towards an Erla built Bf 109 G-10.

Carl, the aft-positioned d/f loop seems to me clear. Could it be one of the rare Erla-built K-4s...? After all it is now clear that they shared the same nose/cowl characteristics of their G-10s...

[Charles Bavarois]

Marc,

unfortunately the quality of the foto is poor and the camo hides any information on the exact type.

AFAIK three digit codes were only used at the Schuldjagdgeschwader in 1944/45. The advanced training units "Ergänzungsjagdgeschwader" had one- and two-digit codes.

A high perfomance fighter like the G-10 may have been allocated to a Ergänzungsjagdgruppe in small numbers, as this units sometimes were called to active frontline duties in 1945. A G-10 at a Schuljagdgeschwader seems very unlikely.

So: I do not really know

Greetings

Carl

[Charles Bavarois]

Hello Veltro,

I would love to have a foto of another Erla Bf 109 K, but I am sorry that this time I perhaps can't follow you.

The foto is poor and especially the rear fuselage has no details at all. The camo seems to be very bright, not the dull dark grey or green we know from the only other foto of an Erla Kurfuerst. And the underwing Balkenkreuz is not the late war Erla-style with black chevrons only.

But what really makes me think, this is not a K-4 is the engine:
The pipes around the engine and the engine-bearer are not the DB 605 D pattern, but the DB 605 AS!. (O God!! Another Erla G-10 with AS-engine????).

Looks like a Gustav-airframe of unknowable Baureihe to which a DB605 AS engine with the cowlings of the Erla-type were attached.

Greetings from Munich to hopefully sunny Italy

Carl

[Pilot]

Interesting image at all, no matter what version is, it is nice to see this late war machines in winter scheme

[veltro]

Carl, probably you're right and with this kind of fuzzy images, in the end one risks to see what he wants to see...

What could look as the d/f loop may be only another detail (there is apparently another panel posed over the plane's spine in that area).

So, G-10 it may be, waiting eventually for the original image or a sharper one...