He 219 found in Denmark !!!

[Marcel Hogenhuis]

Hello Brian,

Thanks for your interesting remarks. The sole doubt I have by 'rear fire' is that this He219 had a two men crew (Tampke and Tants) so we must assume that Tants did not hide himself somewhere in the fuselage, but stayed neatly on his seat. Is the damage to the Mustang and/or pilot specified ? Bullet holes or could it be damage from debris?

The first, pre A-0 produced He219 prototypes had a bulged rear canopy with an oval shaped hole/window which would enable to house a MG for rear defense. However: Wnr.190107 was the 36th A-0 produced He219 from Schwechat and had the stretched, more aerodynamically shaped rear canopy most of us know.
In May 1944 the II./NJG 1 had some He219's too but 190107 was not among them and therefore not having the field modification as discussed above in one of my other postings.

I am still learning about the He219, its developement and history each day, but up to this day I never came across such canopies with rear firing MG's. Perhaps (in the heat of the fight) front fire has been mistaken for rear fire?

Just loud thinking but given our present knowledge, a He219A-0 with rear firing MG seems unlikely but please feel welcome to correct me if I am wrong.

Best regards, Marcel

[ju55dk]

It's higly unlikely that He 219 A-0 in Grove summer 1944 had any rear MG. The P-51 must have been hit by debries. It's not the only case where fighters report rear fire also by attacks on training aircraft who normally did not carry guns/ammunition untill late in the war. In Denmark training aircraft with guns started carrying ammo around late october 1944.

Junker

[SES]

Hi,
I am now fairly convinced that the wreck is a He219. I base it on the twin wheels, the front of a DB 603 and the feed for the Mk108.
bregds
SES

[SES]

Re post#34 by Brian.
IMHO there is no room for a MG 15 in the rear cokpit of a two seater.
bregds
SES

[Brian Bines]

Hi Guys thanks for the answers and photos the 'Airwar Over Denmark ' just says 'The rear gunner of the ''Leo 45'' fired back and hit White 1 in the starboard mainplane which caught fire, Shirreff managed to put out the fire by using up all his ammo'' ( from combat report ?). The book Fighter Squadron mentions the attack and damaging of one ''Leo 45'' and the shooting down of another, it reports the loss of F/L Bird to a Bf109, and F/Sgt Warren as missing but does not mention the damage to Shirreff's aircraft which returned. As Junker says the damage to the Mustang could hve been debris, hopefully an identity for this 219 can be found and the reason for the MG15 magazine,

Regards

Brian Bines

[Kim Christiansen]

Hello all honorable members of this forum.

Thank you all for your help.

Now that we have found the type of this wreck. He-219, so we are still missing parts of the aircraft's history.

1: Where can we find the identification signs of version number (the tail is missing from the plane)??

2: What happened to the plane, shot down and by whom?

3: When did this happen?

4: What happened to the crew?

5: Incoming views and ideas

Sincerely
Kim Christiansen

[SES]

Hi all,
Kim and I had a long conversation last night which was very helpful. here are some extracts.
The wreck is up-right. The canopy is gone. The rear seat was empty i.e. no remains of a crewmember. The belly is somewhat torn up. The propeller is not badly bent indicating idle or windmilling at impact.
My theory is that the a/c was ditched and the crew managed to vacate in an orderly manner. It is normal for a twin engined a/c to sustain level flight on one engine, so there is no reason to ditch except in case of double engine failure (fuel starvation) or severe combat damage.
Did the He219 carry a dinghy and if so where?
The location of the wreck indicates that the a/c might have been on an anti courier mission. Please see:
http://www.gyges.dk/Courier%20flight...%20sweeden.htm
Right now the wreck is covered by sand, but it shifts around and it may soon be uncovered.
bregds
SES

[SES]

The He219 did carry a dinghy on the back just behind the Mk 108 compartment and in front of the dorsal loop antanna.
bregds
SES