Identity of Ju-52 lost Berlin April 1945-East West Axis

[Larry deZeng]

Here is a 4-page discussion of landing aircraft on the East-West Axis through 26 April 1945 that includes quite a few photos (photos on p.4):

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...?f=49&t=167239

The journalist who wrote most of the thread appears to be creditable. Anyway, he certainly collected one hell of a lot of material on the subject. He's a long-time Berlin resident, too.

L.

[Jim P.]

From an old article in Jet & Prop magazine are listed several losses from 21/26-Apr.

Ju 52/3mg4e, 6600, Grautoff, Hptm., , , , F.d.F., , SF+IF, SF+IF, , 21-Apr-45, 21.April 1945, RK?, Reich, Jet & Prop 3/95, p.43, Menke, (Schönwalde), 100%, F, , ,
Ju 52/3mg4e, 6566, KOHMANN, Hptm. Hanns, , , , F.d.F., , NT+NL, NT+NL, , 21-Apr-45, KIA due to ground fire near Sernow, Brandenburg., RK. Gepäckflgz. - baggage flight., Reich, Jet & Prop 3/95, p.62, photo, Menke, (Pocking-Schönwalde), 100%, F, , ,
Ju 52/3mg14e, 640181, Martin, Uffz. Ernst, , II., 7., TG 3, , 4V+GR, , , 26-Apr-45, Crashed 26./27April 1945, struck trees during landing., , Reich, Jet & Prop 4/95, p.48 photo, , Berlin, 100%, F, , ,
Ju 52/3m, 5111, Wagner, Uffz. Richard, , II., II., TG 3, , 4V+AN, , , 26-Apr-45, MIA 26./27April 1945, , Reich, Jet & Prop 4/95, p.50, , -, 100%, F, , ,

[kaki3152]

Sounds like the last two are the best candidates...

[pmotch]

Larry..
I actually saw that thread a week ago, but being that this is a Luftwaffe site- I figured I'd throw out the question here.

I agree that the guy doing most of the posting seems pretty knowledgeable. Only problem I'm having is that he's not able to back up alot of stuff he's writing like some of the others.

I will add, that we may never know if Ju52's landed within Berlin at the end of April '45. Unless those pilots ever wrote something or some sort of official documents are found.. this may be a mystery unsolved.

Hoping to be back in Berlin in Feb again and will spend the entire time in the Tiergarten trying to figure this out!

Always
Motch

[FalkeEins]

Originally Posted by pmotch

Larry..
I will add, that we may never know if Ju52's landed within Berlin at the end of April '45. Unless those pilots ever wrote something or some sort of official documents are found.. Motch

Don't let Gerrard Williams hear you say that - he'll harangue you to within an inch of your life...(co-author 'Grey Wolf - the Escape of Adolf Hitler). That's not a recommendation either. See Johannes Lachmund's memoir ('Fliegen, mein Traumberuf', 2009 memoir still available on amazon.de) as quoted in Larry's thread and my short article. He apparently landed on the E-W axis (evening of Sunday 29 April 1945). Unfortunately for Williams, Hitler had already escaped Berlin by then (he says...)

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by FalkeEins

Don't let Gerrard Williams hear you say that - he'll harangue you to within an inch of your life...

Straying off topic, would I be right in thinking that the book operates on the common fallacy "you can't prove X absolutely, so Y must be true"?

[FalkeEins]

good summation...and he's hardcore with it. See any of the other forums (Axis history, WW2talk, ww2f.com etc etc). Anybody putting a review up on amazon gets flamed. I've just attempted to look at the Luftwaffe aspects of his 'story' (Peter Baumgart 128-vic ace etc etc..I mean that's pretty basic stuff isn't it). Larry has also had some communication with him on the AHF regarding flights into Berlin..the journalist Larry refers to above is not Gerrard Williams by the way. That particular thread seems to have taken place during the writing and 'research' of 'Grey Wolf..'

[Nick Beale]

I was quite taken with Baumgart's claim that the rescue flight put down in Magdeburg on the way to Denmark. Awfully magnanimous of the US Army (there since 18 April) to let them fly on, wasn't it?

[FalkeEins]

and deadly serious too. This is not - at least in the author's eyes - a 'what-if' or 'alternate history' ..its on military history shelf of my local Waterstones. Deserves to be in the children's section.

[Larry deZeng]

Every country has them, including or especially us. Here's a good example: Wilcox, Robert K. (1985). Japan's Secret War: Japan's Race Against Time to Build Its Own Atomic Bomb. William Morrow & Company. Wilcox lives in California.

These "authors" know that the best way to sell a book is to select a controversial topic and then write a sensationalist exposé. That Bacque nut from Montreal with his nonsense about the Americans and French intentionally starving to death over 1,000,000 German POWs in 1945-46 is another example.

Returning to April in Berlin, Georg Schlaug, the dean of Luftwaffe transport historians, has never uncovered anything to substantiate the Ju 52(s) landing and taking off from the Ost-West Achse. I used to correspond extensively with him and this subject came up at one point. Those who have subscribed to Jet & Prop and Flugzeug over the past 20+ years will recognize his name.

L.