3rd Feb. 1940. KG30

[bill norman]

Does anyone have record of a Ju88 being shot down in the area 53º30-54º40N/c.03ºE (Dogger Bank area) at c.0850hrs(BST) or 0950hrs(CET)? Cause was probably naval gunfire but fighters cannot be ruled out.
BN (www.billnorman.co.uk)

[bill norman]

Correction. The times should read c.0750hrs(BST) or 0850hrs(CET. Sorry about that. BN

[Chris Goss]

The fighters claims that day (4 He 111s destroyed and 3 damaged) were at 0930, 0940, 1115 hrs or thereabouts. The only other Ju 88 lost that day you already know about-Hptm Heinz-Wilhelm Rosenthal's?

[bill norman]

Chris,
Thanks for replying. Blitz, then & now vol.1 states that Rosenthal's Ju88 was hit by AA fire off the Moray Firth. I have grounds for believing that it was, in fact, lost over Dogger Bank when en route to the Moray Firth - although whether a ship or a fighter was the cause is in some doubt. I am still hoping that someone has record of a claim by a ship or a fighter -although I doubt the possibility of a fighter claim. Bill

[bill norman]

Does anyone have any official UK proof that the Ju88 of Staffelkapitän Hptmn Heinz-Wilhelm Rosenthal and his crew (2./KG30) was shot down by naval gunfire off the Moray Firth on 3 February 1940?

[ju55dk]

3 Ju 88 from KG 30 took off from Westerland together with 3 He 111 from I/KG 26 at 0800 hour. Around 0830 another 12 He 111 from 4/KG 26 took off from Schleswig.
First distress call came from a He 111 from KG 26 at 1117. However 1H+KM made it back to land safely.
At 1800 its reproted that Ju 88 4D+AK, He 111 1H+FM, 1H+GK and 1H+HL is still missing. At 2315 heard from BBC that one german aircraft was shot down at Yorkshire. The Seenotdienst and KG 26 made a search on the 4, but without succes.

Junker

[bill norman]

Junker, thanks for replying - and for your help so far. I know exactly what happened to the He.111s but the fate of Ju88 (2./KG30; 4D+AK) is puzzling. The conventional wisdom in UK books is that it was shot down by naval flak off the Moray Firth, ditched in the sea and that Hptmn Heinz-Wilhelm Rosenthal and his crew were made PoW. I have a report written by a 2./KG30 Beobachter who was on the raid who said that Rosenthal disappeared in mist over Dogger Bank after having been shot at by an unidentified ship and was not seen again. At the time, Rosenthal seems to have been nearer to Germany than he was to UK - so if he was shot down by naval flak it seems more likely that it was from a German ship. If the plane ditched and its crew was rescued by a German vessel, one might have expected that he and his crew were eventually returned to 2./KG30 - but it seems that they did not return to their unit. If there were some UK official evidence that they were lost off the Scottish coast, things would be easier to understand - but at the moment there isn't. This is why I keep asking these questions. Incidentally, do you know where I might find the first page of the Seenotnord KTB for 03.02.1940?

Bill
(www.billnorman.co.uk)

[ju55dk]

The missing pages will be send to you this weekend. I have a lot of Krigsmarine records and none of them mentions a claim from ships on that date. If Rosenthal were made POW it should be on recorded somewhere in the UK. The Seenotdienst did not report him as resqued. Perhaps someone have the relevant WASt-report.

Junker

[bill norman]

Junker, they've arrived. Thanks - you're in the Acknowledgements!

Bill N.
(www.billnorman.co.uk)