Possible Bf109 losses in Channel not previously reported in Sept. 1940?

[Larry Hickey]

Jim,

Thanks for putting some effort into this. Jochen Prien has already looked at III./JG53 in depth for possible explanations. Perhaps he needs to look at the other JG53 units as well for this H-J Frodien. Still no explanation for these two entries.

Regards,

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, all

That was the only name that came even close in my search also. For the Strunk fellow there are similarly few possibilities.

Has anyone looked in depth at I./LG 2, I believe they had a couple of guys posted as missing on this date?

Well - I haven't worked much on the Kanal, and I know there are a lot of details in the books Peter Cornwell have contributed to - but here goes the raw data:

Stab/JG 3:

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117143

This one is out of the question entirely

I./J.G.3:

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117069

This would then be the aircraft flown by the aforementioned Bucholz

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117136

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117066

Both of these are listed as missing in action, and must be on the initial list of possible matches

III./J.G.26:

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117172

This can be ruled out in my opinion as the aircraft was not a total loss, and the location indicate they ended up in German controlled territory

I./J.G.27:

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117138

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117140

These two can be ruled out in my opinion as the aircraft was not a total loss, and the location indicate they ended up in German controlled territory

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117139

The JG 27 book states that the pilot ended up as a POW, and this one can thus be ruled out

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117137

A possibility as the aircraft and pilot is simply listed as missing

III./J.G.51:

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117133
http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117130

Pilot made POW and KIA respectively, can be ruled out.

I./J.G.52:

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117057

A possibility

I./J.G.53:
http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117063
http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117061
http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117060

Can be ruled out

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db/lw_loss_public.asp?lossid=117064
http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117062

Possible matches, but I guess Jochen has ruled these out using other sources

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=116977

A possible match - as he can have been rescued an later died from his injuries. What do we know about this one, Jochen?


III./J.G.53:

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117134

Can be ruled out

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117135

This would then be the aircraft flown by the aforementioned Oblt. Müller

I./J.G.77:

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117131

Can be ruled out, low damage in German controlled area

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117132

A possibility

I./L.G.2:

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117058
http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=117059

Both possible matches until further information have been added

These are the Bf 109's I have on this date - assuming that the crew of the rescue aircraft was right in their reporting the person picked up was a Bf 109 pilot...

Regards,
Andreas B

[Brian Bines]

Peter. thanks for the reply. If the QM's report of 16-9 is correct that He59 1513 was lost and its crew rescued with a fighter pilot is it likely this was Oblt. Muller of III/JG53, albeit that the date should be the 15th ( date of 15th as QMs report of 17-9 and your attachments). I take it from the reports on your posts that the crew of 1513, and the fighter pilot ? were rescued by a surface vessel.

Andreas, Oblt. Julius Haase of 3/JG53 is shown as killed following his parachute failing over Biggin Hill

Regards

Brian Bines

[Peter Cornwell]

Brian,

Seenotflugkdo 3 Heinkel He 59 (1513). Crashed during heavy landing in the Channel off Dungeness during air-sea rescue mission 1.30 p.m. FF Uffz[ ]Bauer and rest of crew all rescued unhurt by German vessel Seelöwe. Aircraft TW+HO 100% write-off.

Current evidence suggests that Oberlt MÜLLER of Stab III./JG53 was the airman picked up by Do18 K6+BL of 3./KüFlGr.406 later that afternoon.

[Brian Bines]

Peter, thanks again for the info.,

Regards

Brian Bines