Dogfights over Sworbe 18-23.Nov.1944 questions. Part 2. Soviet claims vs German losses

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Part 2

The picture of Soviet successes against Luftwaffe off Sworbe on 18-23.Nov.44 is totally unclear.
Apart from 3 seaplanes (GA140 [BV138], Ar95, Ar96), all other claims (30) were FW190
Claims for FW190 were following:
----------Fighters------Air Gunners----Total
18.Nov.44-----3-----------1-------------4
19.Nov.44-----8 -----------1-------------9
23.Nov.44----16 -----------1------------17
-----------------------------------------------------
Total---------27-----------3------------30
Ships and AA artillery hadn’t claims.

BV138, Ar95 and Ar96 were maybe a sole Bordflugzeug from Adm.Scheer - Ar196 (Oblt Telle - Oberfeldw. Zeissler), really destroyed on 23.Nov.44. But situation with FW190s is totally unclear. In AOK.16 documents for 18-23.Nov.44 only two fighter losses/damages mentioned:
18.Nov one fighter made a force landing on Nord Kurland coast. It maybe result a dogfight off Sworbe or one of FW190F from III./SG3 – many of them made a force landing due to bad weather after interrupted group’s sortie against Soviet ships off Sworbe.
23.Nov one fighter crashed. Again, the cause unclear.

Anyway, 1-3 real losses against 33 claims seems too high overclaiming.

QUESTION. Maybe some losses of I./JG54, II./JG54, III./SG3, NAGr5 and other units of Luftflotte 1 are known from NVM and other sources? Also, some units of Luftflotte 6 from Eastern Prussia maybe took part, especially as escort of Kriegsmarine 2.Kampfgruppe.

As a contrast with the high overclaim ratio, mentioned above, the following story:
A day before final assault, on 17.Nov., the pair of Yak-9 (leader Lt Kuzmin) from 15.ORAP Baltic Fleet Air Forces made two recce sorties in south-east part of Baltic Sea. In the 1st sortie they claimed BV138, in the 2nd – “Ar95”. BV138 confirmed by Kriegsmarine documents, Arado (no doubt, Ar196) – by AOK16 observers. No other Soviet claims in that time and place, so both Kuzmin’s successes are real.

Best regards,
Andrey

[Laurent Rizzotti]

From the summary of Luftwaffe losses (1./196, Stab, I. and II./JG 54, III./SG 3):

18 Nov 1944: no loss in air combat reported
I/JG 54:
one aircraft destroyed on the ground by enemy bombs
four damaged on the ground by enemy bombs
one damaged on the ground by enemy gunfire from ground forces
II/JG 54:
one aircraft destroyed without enemy action on operational flight
III/SG 3:
one aircraft damaged without enemy action on operational flight

19 Nov 1944: no loss in air combat reported, one to AA
I/JG 54:
one aircraft damaged without enemy action on operational flight
two damaged without enemy action on non-operational flight
one damaged on the ground by enemy gunfire from ground forces
III/SG 3:
one aircraft destroyed by anti-aircraft artillery during operational flight
two damaged without enemy action on operational flight

20-21 Nov 1944: no loss reported

22 Nov 1944: one possible loss in air combat
I/JG 54:
one aircraft damaged without enemy action on non-operational flight
II/JG 54:
one aircraft destroyed without enemy action on operational flight
III/SG 3:
one aircraft missing due to enemy action

23 Nov 1944: one loss in air combat (but not a Fw 190)
1./196:
one aircraft destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft during operational flight, observed by enemy
I./JG 54:
two aircraft damaged without enemy action on non-operational flight

You can find more details (loss hour, crew names and fate) about the Ar 196 shot down on 23 Nov 1944 there:
http://www.historisches-marinearchiv...ere_value=1185

Sadly the above source has nothing about the floatplanes losses of the 17 AFAIK.

Best regards

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hello Laurent,

thank you a lot

Originally Posted by Laurent Rizzotti

From the summary of Luftwaffe losses (1./196, Stab, I. and II./JG 54, III./SG 3):

What is the source of the Summary?

Originally Posted by Laurent Rizzotti

Sadly the above source has nothing about the floatplanes losses of the 17 AFAIK.

It is strange.
Info about BV138 - from KTB MOK Ost and also from some subordinated commands of Kriegsmarine.
Info about Ar196 - from Tagesmeldung AOK16 for 17.Nov.44.

Best regards,
Andrey

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Source of the summary is the site of Andreas Brekken:
http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_summ_loss_acft_overview.asp?PAGE=1

To be precise about the two floatplane losses of 17 November, what I wanted to say is that the website did not list these losses, but that did not mean they did not happen, just that nothing about these losses is written here.

Best regards

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Originally Posted by Laurent Rizzotti

Source of the summary is the site of Andreas Brekken:
http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_summ_loss_acft_overview.asp?PAGE=1

Thank you a lot again!

Andrey