Performance/Endurance of Bf 109 G-6 during aerial combat - questions for experts!!!

[Graham Boak]

However, the whole idea seems a little unreal. If the P-38s were just passing over, they'd be gone before the 109 unit could be scrambled and climb to altitude. The 109s would then have to travel at greater than optimum range speed in order to catch up. On the other hand, if the P-38s were attacking the base, they'd be at low-level and it would be suicidal for the German unit to attempt to take-off.

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

You can work out the details for just about any combination using the F-4 range table at Beim Zeugmeister - the G-6 had very similiar :

http://www.beim-zeugmeister.de/zeugm...are%20found%3B

It should be pretty simply assume a full tank, as in your example, of 400 liters. Say 3 minutes is spent on maximum power, 1475 PS, that is 480 lit consumption per hour, or 24 liters in 3 minutes. Say another 10 minutes is spent 30 minute rating - 400 liters/h - which is another 67 liter consumed. That is 91 liter in total, leaving 309 liters for other purposes.

The F-4, at the engine power best for range consumed 120 liter/h, and could fly 315 km/h at 1 km altitude while doing so. 309/120 is 2,57 h duration, during which the aircraft can cover 2,57 x 315 = 811 km. So, about 400 km radius in an optimum case, or 300 km radius for a pretty safe bet.

Hello Kurfurst - do you happen to have any Bf 109G/K performance tests which include rated Hp at critical altitudes along with the speeds attained?

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Graham Boak

However, the whole idea seems a little unreal. If the P-38s were just passing over, they'd be gone before the 109 unit could be scrambled and climb to altitude. The 109s would then have to travel at greater than optimum range speed in order to catch up. On the other hand, if the P-38s were attacking the base, they'd be at low-level and it would be suicidal for the German unit to attempt to take-off.

Not only true regarding the fuel consumption but depending on the P-38 speed, the 109s might never catch up.

[Oberst]

Originally Posted by drgondog

Not only true regarding the fuel consumption but depending on the P-38 speed, the 109s might never catch up.

Others 109's however, will.

[yogybär]

Originally Posted by Oberst

But the OP is talking 1944.. So I like to think perhaps a G6/AS would make the P-38 life a bit more difficult.

No. A G-6/AS is even slower then a standard G-6 at altitudes below VDH/FTH and also climbs slower there.

Originally Posted by Oberst

Others 109's however, will.

No. Even if we would have a 109K and the P-38 flies at altitide "0", then
- the 109K-4@1,3ata is slower then a late Lightning@100% between 0 and min. 9000feet
- the Lightning has a certain lead of say 2-3 minutes because the 109 has to warm up engine, take-off, go in the right direction and accelerate
2,5 minutes at 450km/h would be ca. 20km

Also, no pilot would use his MW-50 just to catch up with the enemy and then begin a fight just as he has to cool down his engine.

PS: If it calms you: I guess, a Lightning group sitting on its AF would also not try to catch up with a German fighter group passing - chance of finding them are just very low.

[Kutscha]

Scroll down and the fuel consumption of DB605 engines can be found.
http://mitglied.multimania.de/luftwa..._varianten.pdf

For example for the DB605A - C

At 5.7km, 2100rpm, 1.00ata fuel consumption is 250l/hr. At the same altitude but 2800rpm, 1.42ata, the consumption is 450l/hr.

[Oberst]

Originally Posted by yogybär

No. A G-6/AS is even slower then a standard G-6 at altitudes below VDH/FTH and also climbs slower there.

No. Even if we would have a 109K and the P-38 flies at altitide "0", then
- the 109K-4@1,3ata is slower then a late Lightning@100% between 0 and min. 9000feet
- the Lightning has a certain lead of say 2-3 minutes because the 109 has to warm up engine, take-off, go in the right direction and accelerate
2,5 minutes at 450km/h would be ca. 20km

Also, no pilot would use his MW-50 just to catch up with the enemy and then begin a fight just as he has to cool down his engine.

PS: If it calms you: I guess, a Lightning group sitting on its AF would also not try to catch up with a German fighter group passing - chance of finding them are just very low.

Thats some funny stuff!

Proof a G-6/AS is slower then a standard G-6? I'd like to see that if you don't mind.

And I don't understand how what will calm me? I'm not nervous.

[innocenti]

Originally Posted by Oberst

Thats some funny stuff!

Proof a G-6/AS is slower then a standard G-6? I'd like to see that if you don't mind.

the bigger supercharger needs more power from the crank at dense air.
innocenti

[Oberst]

Well I changed the blower (supercharger) on my car from a 4-71 to a 6-71 and it still went faster at the expense of more horspower to turn the new supercharger. All at 200 meters above sea level (very dense air). Its the same priciple.

[innocenti]

after changing the supercharger on your car you had got a higher boost and therefore a higher power. At a aircraft motor below the FTH the boost was limited to a certain amount (eg 1,42ATA) and you’ll get not more power, just need more power to drive the supercharger.
innocenti