StG 77 Ju 87 query on code/emblem

[ianatheling]

At eBay here and here are photos of presumably the same aircraft, coded S2+AC. The oddity is that following normal staffel codes this Ju87 should be an aircraft of Stab.II/StG77. However the emblem is attributed to Stab.III/StG77. Is this;
A] Another example of where staffel letters do not follow normal practice?
B] An incorrect emblem attribution?
C] another reason?


Ian

[ianatheling]

…I could partially be answering my own question, but could this stab code anomaly relate to III./StG 77 coming at least in part from II./KG 76?

Ian

[Larry Hickey]

Ian,

I'm deep into the unit insignias trying to lay out hundreds of color profile packages right now for the EoE Project, so this kind of problem ties right into what I'm dealing with every day. I have indisputable photo evidence that Stab II./StG77 Ju87Bs during the Phoney War and Western Campaign, and probably on into the BoB, carried the rampant lion insignia that is the traditionally accepted insignia for that unit (see Ries and Ketley/Rolfe). Your reference photo has a white rear fuselage band so is presumably in the Balkans or Russia, and thus is after the 1939-40 focus period of the EoE Project and my period of expertise. However, my research to date indicates that this insignia anomaly apparently arrises after 1940 and thus is not related to the II./KG76 issue (I now think that I'm wrong about this: see my subsequent comment below).

There is a well-known photo of Hptm Helmuth Bode, who was GrKdr of III./StG77 from its formation on 07.09.40 until 25.08.42, sitting in the cockpit of a Stab III./StG77 Ju87B, presumably S2+AD (see my post below that corrects this information). This carries the same knight insignia below the cockpit as your reference photo. According to de Zeng & Stankey's excellent "Dive Bomber and Ground Attack Units of the Luftwaffe, Vol I" (P. 145) this knight insignia was the family coat of arms of the Bode family. So, there is an obviously problem as to why this photo shows a Stab II./StG77 Ju87B, S2+AC, carrying what is certainly the Stab III./StG77 insignia. This, of course, is the point of your post in the first place.

This doesn't solve the problem, but I hope that it clarifies the issues a bit.

I still owe you a reply to your email of several days ago, but I will get to it.

Regards,

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

I should have read further in the de Zeng/Stankey book referenced above, because this explains the photo mystery. On the notes on P.146 it says that the codes for Stab III./StG77 up to July, 1942, were "F1+_C." After that date, they were "S2+_D." I've assumed that the photo in question shows S2+AC, but in fact the Gesch code isn't clear, but must be F1+AC. and the photo taken in Russia sometime up to July, 1942. This would have been Bode's GrKdr aircraft. This doesn't explain why III./StG77 aircraft from the unit's inception to July, 1942, carried codes that would normally indicate a II. Gr unit, but at least it explains the markings of the Ju87B in the photo. It should be noted that the change over to S2+_D, which would be the normally expected code for III./StG77 Stab aircraft happened at about the same time as Bode ended his command of the unit.

I should also note that Oblt. Dietrich Pelz was acting Gr. Kdr. of III./StG77 for a short time during the unit's formation in June, 1940, before Hptm Bode took over in July, and apparently presided over the full formation and organization of the unit, which subsequently participated in the Battle of Britain.

As a further note, John Weal in his Osprey book, "Junkers Ju 87" P.62, appears to have gotten the markings on this aircraft correct in his profile representing Bode's aircraft during August, 1940, although the blue for the top part of the unit insignia isn't dark enough on my scan of this profile (or my screen isn't adjusted correctly for displaying blue tones).

I suspect that Larry de Zeng has a better grasp of the question about II Gr codes on a III Gr unit for III./StG77 than anyone, and I hope that he will address (and hopefully resolve) that question.

Regards,

[ianatheling]

Hi Larry

Many thanks for your responses. I thought that I could just about see a '2' before the cross, so had assumed it was S2+AC, but F1+AC seems more logical.

Cheers
Ian

[Larry Hickey]

Ian,

This whole problem about the Bode a/c codes has long bothered me, so I'm glad that you brought this issue up. Upon further reflection, it appears that the only reasonable explanation for "F1" and II Gruppe a/c codes on III./StG77 a/c IS related to the unit being partially formed out of II.(S)/KG76, which also carried "F1" as the Gesch code. You were apparently right in your original comment about this.

Regards,

[ianatheling]

Thanks again. The same eBay seller has also offered two photos of Ju87B of Otto Schmidt,coded F1+AM of 7./StG77, which again supports this KG 76 anomaly.

Ian

[Larry Hickey]

Ian,

According to the de Zeng/Stankey history of III./StG77, all the Staffeln of the Gruppe carried II Gruppe codes, so this is entirely consistent with their information. There are a number of photos of 7 Staffel Ju87s illustrating the text of their book.

Regards,