Civil Airliner losses Battle of France

[Peter Cornwell]

Thank you Col,

Many thanks but that information I have. I'm trying to positively identify the aircraft shown in various photos.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Peter

I don't think the two sets of photos show the same aircraft. Your second set of two DC-3 shows basically an intact aircraft captured by the Germans. There are no trace of any AA-fire as far as I can see.
There is another photo from e-bay of this aircraft which I have attached (hopefully) which clearly shows it with German troops.

So unless we surmise that this aircraft somehow escaped after a number of photos had been taken of it and later was shot down by AA-fire, I would say we are looking at two different aircraft.

Cheers
Stig

[Pieter H]

To me it is not entirely clear.

These are the usual facts as I know them:
- Two Belgian Sabena DC3's escaped to England and were taken over by (probably) the RAF No.24 Sqn. These were the OO-AUH and OO-AUI.
- The OO-AUI was shot down on May 23 while over Calais and crashed near Arques (near St Omer). All reports say this was due to part of the left wing being shot away. The crash was pretty heavy since the pilot died in the accident.
- The OO-AUH ended up in Algiers around June 1940 and was given to the Italians.
- I can't find any references to other DC3's used by the RAF in May 40.

What do we see on the different pictures?
- The two pictures from Peter's 2nd mail and the one from Stig are very likely the same a/c, which seems fully intact, and abandoned on a large air field (Merville?)
- The first picture of Peter of the burnt a/c - and I have more of the same plane - shows in my view an aircraft that has been fired deliberately. It was standing on its wheels when fired, there are no bullet holes etc. Also note that the left wing seems entirely intact.

So my questions or assumptions:
- There seem to be three different aircraft:
1) the OO-AUI that crashed and from which there doesn't seem to be pictures.
2) the OO-AUH that ended up in Italian service.
3) the burnt out aircraft
- If there indeed only two and not more DC3's operated by the RAF in May 40, then the only conclusion can be that the burnt aircraft must be the OO-AUI. But then the stories about a damaged left wing, a crash etc don't seem accurate. The pictures suggest it landed properly but was then set alight.
- I assume that the captured aircraft was the OO-AUH, otherwise I can't explain how an RAF plane ended up in German hands in Algiers.
- Of course all theories change if there were more than two DC3 in use.

Regards, Pieter

[Peter Cornwell]

Many thanks Stig for the additional photo of OO-AUI. This is the key to unravelling my question as you can make out the lower half of the serial on the rear fuselage confirming its exact identity.

Pieter summarises precisely the same problems I was experiencing with these and other photos of the burned out DC-3. But Chris Goss pointed out the partial serial OO-AU remaining on one of the shots of this one. So, given the exact match in camouflage pattern, plus the distinctive chimney in the distance in some photos, I am now reasonably well satisfied that we are looking at the same machine which landed intact near Arques on 23 May 1940 and subsequently became burned-out.

Thank you all for your input.

[Martin Gleeson]

Hallo,
.
I agree with Peter Cornwell about the fate of DC-3 'OO-AUI'.
.
Sabena in 1940 had only two DC-3s and no DC-2s. The massive Air-Britain DC-1/-2/-3 publication confirms this and also seems to account satisfactorily for all of the Dutch DC-2/DC-3s. So apart from photographic evidence a process of elimination leaves OO-AUI as the only possible aircraft to match these photos.
.
The 24 Squadron Operational Record Book has nothing on the events of 23 May 1940 unforunately due to a gap in its records.
.
I had forgotten about the 'AIR ENTHUSIAST', No. 13 article quoted by Col Bruggy. Some extra details and corrections were given in follow-up letters in issues 14 and 15. These and Pieter's summary lead me to put forward the following for discussion. It seems probable to me the aircraft that crashed on 23 May 1940 (losing a wing and leaving two pilots dead and two crewmen badly injured) was not DC-3 'OO-AUI' but rather the SIAI Marchetti S.73 'OO-AGS'. It is generally reported that it was shot down by enemy aircraft soon after take-off from Merville.
.
Combining information from 'AIR ENTHUSIAST' nos. 13 and 15 the crew of S.73 'OO-AGS' were almost certainly;
Raymond Chartier (pilot), killed
Victor Moreau (pilot), killed
Armand Peeters (radio officer), badly injured
..........Leysen (flight mechanic), badly injured.
.
What may help - if anyone has access to it - is the ORB for 271 Squadron RAF, another transport unit. Four of the S.73s, including OO-AGS, were assigned to 271 Squadron, while two more S.73s and the two DC-3s went to 24 Squadron.
.
It would be of interest too to learn exactly where the two Belgian pilots are buried (Arques, Merville or elsewhere). Plus their correct titles in the airline.
.
Hope this helps and looking forward to further discussion on the subject.
.
Martin Gleeson.

[paulmcmillan]

Martin

I have the following from various sources

CHARTIER Raymond Emille Serial Number 258/2226 of Belgian Air Force Pilot rank 1 Sgt: Unit 24 Sqn. RAF SABENAi n service Date of Death 23/05/1940
Type: DC3
Serial number: OO-AUI
Operation:
Lost: 23/05/1940
Sergeant (Pilot) Raymond Chartier (Belgium), BAF (VR), servicenr 258/2226, initially buried at Arcques, exhumed and reinterred 5-9-1950 at Ixelles, Belgium.
Plt Off Benson Freeman - PoW
Captain John M.H. Hoare, British Overseas Airways Corporation, age unknown, 23/05/1940, Arques Churchyard, France
Aircraft was over Calais and it was hit by anti-aircraft and part of the left wing was torn off. The pilot (Raymond Chartier) made a forced landing near Arques. The navigator was killed and two of the passengers wounded, while Chartier was shot by German troops as he tried to reach French lines. The remaining passengers were taken prisoner including Plt Off Benson Freeman of 24 Squadron. The engineer, Piet Vrebos, survived the crash of OO-AUI. The German troops took him POW, but released him and sent him at home because he was a civilian.
Captain Hoare was the skipper of Armstrong Whitworth Ensign G-ADSZ ""Elysean"". This machine was straffed on the ground at Merville by Bf-109s earlier that day. So Hoare was a passenger on this aircraft to return to U.K.

Navigator/Pilot:
MOREAU Victor Pilot Rank: 1 Sgt 271 Sqn. RAF SABENA in Service V Date of Death "25/05/1940 "

I note all the inconsistences now.. two different Sqns and 2 diffferent dates and different name of Engineer! which may indicate the two losses have become mixed up OO-AUI (DC3) and OO-AGS (S.73)

[Martin Gleeson]

Hallo Paul,

Superb information, thank you very much. It is great to have more names of those on board. I wonder what were the circumstances of Victor Moreau's death if he died on the 25th.

I am more convinced than ever that most or all of the deaths and injuries took place when the S.73 'OO-AGS' crashed. I do not recall ever seeing a photo of this wreck however.

Regards and thanks again,

Martin.