22 Aug 44 P-47 near Tours sur Marne (nr Athis)

[Larry deZeng]

Yes, Chris, those coordinates for Plivot were taken directly from the 1944 Directorate of Air Intelligence/Air Ministry airfield sheet without correction or alteration. The coordinates given in these airfield sheets was always for the dead center of the landing area.

Here is another one for you:

Vraux (FR) (a.k.a. Condé-sur-Marne) (49 02 37 N – 04 14 49 E)
General: landing ground in NE France 29-30 km SE of Reims, 13 km NW of Châlons-sur-Marne, 5.2 km E of Condé-sur-Marne and 1.6 km NNE of the village of Vraux. The landing ground was situated in a conspicuous triangle whose sides were - NE: the Reims- Châlons road; SW: the Canal Lateral de la Marne and the Marne River; NW: Canal de la Marne a L’Aisne.
History: Vraux/Condé-sur-Marne was a pre-war French Air Force field airstrip that was used by the RAF during 1939-40. It was obstructed by the Luftwaffe and ignored until spring 1944. Surface and Dimensions: open field measuring approx. 1150 x 960 meters (1250 x 1050 yards) and irregular in shape. Fuel and Ammunition: unknown. Infrastructure: no hangars or workshops, but there were 2 small buildings in the S corner that were being used as accommodations in Apr 44. The nearest rail connection was on a narrow-guage line at Vraux, and the nearest main line connection was at Châlons-sur-Marne. Dispersal: no organized dispersal facilities.
Remarks:
Jun 42: landing area reportedly obstructed.
19 Apr 44: landing area no longer obstructed. Original landing area now serviceable and leveling work has begun to extend the S boundary to provide a NE/SW landing take-off run of approx. 1510 x 320 meters (1650 x 350 yards).
Operational Units: I., II./JG 53 (15-22 Jun 40).
Station Commands: Fl.H.Kdtr. E 12/XIII (24 Jun 40).
Station Units (on various dates – not complete): none identified.
[Sources: AFHRA A5259 p.1543 and A5260 pp.1909-10 (2 Jul 43 updated to 19 Apr 44); chronologies; BA-MA; NARA; PRO/NA; web site ww2.dk]

Larry

[rob van den nieuwendijk]

Hello Chris and Larry,

The following link might be helpful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athis_Airfield

Best regards,
Rob

[Larry deZeng]

Thanks for the link, Rob. More grist for the mill and more conflicts for Chris to try and sort out.

II./JG 3: Athis (10-22 Aug 44)
III./JG 3: Chalons-sur-Marne (10-27 Aug 44)

AirMin A.I.2.b coordinates for Épernay-Plivot 49 00 25 N – 04 05 10 E
Wiki Athis coordinates: 49 00 28 N – 04 06 50 E

The Wiki coordinates for Athis are a little less than 2 km E of the AirMin coordinates for Épernay-Plivot. There is no Google Earth evidence of there ever being an airfield at the Wiki coordinates. The difference in the coordinates may be that the AirMin ones are from 1944 while the Wiki ones are from May 2012. Since coordinates change over time, the passage of 68 years may account for this slight difference. If so, then this is further evidence that Épernay-Plivot and Athis are one and the same.

Châlons-sur-Marne is a different problem - see below:


Châlons-sur-Marne (FR) (a.k.a. L’Épine, Écury-sur-Coole) (48 54 N – 04 19 E or 48 54 20N – 04 21 05 E?)
General: a former landing ground in E France 6 km S of Châlons-sur-Marne that was inactive and unserviceable from 1940 until late spring 1944 (Jun 44?) when the Luftwaffe hastily restored it to active status. Only operational for two months, no airfield details are available from British Air Ministry sources. History: no information. Surface and Dimensions: no information. Fuel and Ammunition: no information. Infrastructure: no information. Dispersal: no information.
Remarks:
27 Jun 44: low-level attack on Châlons by VIII Fighter Command P-47s – claimed 1 x Bf 109 destroyed and 1 more damaged on the ground.
8 Jul 44: low-level attack by VIII Fighter Command P-51s SW of Châlons – claimed 9 x Bf 109s, 6 x Me 410s and 5 x Fw 190s destroyed, plus 9 x Bf 109s, 6 x Me 410s and 7 x Fw 190s damaged. [Note: “SW of Châlons” is assumed to be this airfield as it was the only one in that location.]
Operational Units: III./JG 3 (10-27 Aug 44).
Station Commands: none identified.
Lw. Station Units (on the airfield, in the town or nearby on various dates – not complete): schw.Flak-Abt. 278 (Eisb.) (Châlons Jun-Aug 44); Stab and elements of Ln.-Telegrafenbau-Abt. z.b.V. 11 (Châlons Dec 42 – Aug 44).
[Sources: chronologies; BA-MA; NARA; PRO/NA; web site ww2.dk]

The landing ground at Châlons-sur-Marne is 22.5 km SE of Plivot (Athis), so it seems unlikely that this two could be confused one for the other.

Larry

[hautemarnechris]

Thanks Rob and Larry

I'd seen the Wiki entry for Athis airfield. I've no idea whether it's reliable -there is so much on Wiki which is not.

The lat/longs they give are almost exactly where there is what appears to be a triangular section of concrete which I suppose could be an old section of runway. But, they say the airfield was to the SE of Athis village. The section of concrete is to the SW of the village. Like Larry I can't see any other signs of an airfield on Google Earth or Streetview.

I think the only way to settle this is by visiting the area and speaking to local people - there should be somebody at Tours, Athis and/or Plivot who can remember which airfields were where in August 1944. I shall also visit the folk who run the airfield museum at Vraux and stooge around on the ground to see if there are any signs of the pesky Athis airfield.

I've discounted Chalons airfield because it doesn't fit any of the other information - except that an Udet gruppe (III/Jg3) was based there in August.

Thanks again

Chris