Bf109G-10 (mcu-Erla Leipzig) Batch:490130-490399

[KrisJG3]

Dears,


I looking for more detais like photos of similar aircrafts photos from the same batch of Bf109 G-10 with Werk Numer -'' ... -- 490000 – 490800 ~ Erla G-10 - many were fitted with DB 605/AS. ....'
First serie of Bf109G-10 Erla with Werk Nr.: 490130-490399 was sent to units in Sep.-Oct.1944.
http://www.messerschmitt-bf109.de/di...lang=de&auth=e
http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/articles/g10/g10.htm
For me is interesting aricraft with Werk Numer: 490362 which belong to Haupt: Günter Rabeler from 2./JG3 (Stab I) (info.1945) - so moust similar numbers from Erla can be possible similar (?) - it seems to me.

Is here Charles Bavaroise the same from link beside ? ( from: http://www.lwag.org/forums/archive/i...hp/t-1249.html )

If this person is still here on the FORUM - I would like to ask about contact on prive e-mail:
Huball25@poczta.fm

Maybe some body of You have list some of aircrafts from Erla with batch: 490130---490399 ???
To which units was sent each aircraft , pilots , etc....

( acc.: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...d=1#post154546 )

Best regards,
Kris

[veltro]

Originally Posted by KrisJG3

I looking for more detais like photos of similar aircrafts photos from the same batch of Bf109 G-10 with Werk Numer -'' ... -- 490000 – 490800 ~ Erla G-10 - many were fitted with DB 605/AS. ....'

Ok, Kris, probably we started with the wrong foot...

Could you support the statement you have just quoted with some evidence?

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Kris,

Interested in your answer regarding Ferdinando's question. In the mean time, I found six planes documented by photographs for the W.N.r 490 xxx - 491 xxx batch:

1. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 490 137, "Weisse 14", 15./JG 51, Hptm Waldemar Wagler, Rinkaby, May 1945.Source: forcedlandingcollection.se
2. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 490 621 "Bianco 3-11" 3a. Sq. I. Gruppo Caccia, Lonate Pozzolo, April 1945. Source: D'Amico and Valentini 1985, p. 98
3. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 490 629 "Gelbe 7", Lt. Werner Petereit, 7./JG 3, Garz, 11 March 1945. Source: Prien and Stemmer 1996, p. 386.
4. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 490 655 "Gelbe 24", Lt. Anton Wöffen, Staka 6./JG 27, near Rheinberg, Germany, 11 March 1945. Prien, Rodeike and Stemmer 1997, p. 462.
5. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 490 708 "Schwarze 7" 2./JG 3, Uffz. Franz Mörl, 24 December 1944. Source: Prien, Rodeike and Stemmer 1997, p. 467.
6. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 490 755 "Blaue 1", 8./JG 3, Garz, 1945. Prien and Stemmer 1996, p. 390.

Cheers
Marc

PS: I tried since 8 AM many times to insert the links to my Flickr account, but to no avail: I always get a "server temporarily down" message.

[KrisJG3]

Dear Marc,

Can you sent to me on the prive e-mail: Huball25@poczta.fm ?????
Have you photo of:
Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 490 708 "Schwarze 7" 2./JG 3, Uffz. Franz Mörl, 24 December 1944. Source: Prien, Rodeike and Stemmer 1997, p. 467.

Günter Rabeler was also from 2./JG3 but ''Schwarze 9'' with Werk Numer 490362 I have got his technical data plate from aircraft.

Here is also interesting Werk Numer:

Neumann, Helmut Uffz 15/JG-4 (Reich Def Ost Bf 109G-10 Werk # 490428 "Yellow 10" (lost 2/7/45) Fighter Operational Clasp MIA 7 February, 1945 at Fürstenberg, no further detail. (Bf 109 Loss List & JG-4 List). - but without photo.

http://aircrewremembrancesociety.com...anPilotsN.html

Best regards,

Kris

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Hi Kris,

Done! Have you thought about Veltro's request as to your source for the DB 605 AS engines for this specific Erla batch? I would be highly interested too...

Thanks in advance
Marc

[KrisJG3]

Hi Guys,

This :
'' ... -- 490000 – 490800 ~ Erla G-10 - many were fitted with DB 605/AS. ....'

Source: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=27058

Originally Posted by Oberst

according to Prein:

130000 – 130500 ~ Mtt-Regensburg G-10
150700 – 151000 ~ Erla G-10
151500 – 152000 ~ Erla G-10
490000 – 490800 ~ Erla G-10 - many were fitted with DB 605/AS
491000 – 491600 ~ Erla G-10
610300 – 610600 ~ WNF G-10
610900 – 611000 ~ WNF G-10
611900 – 612000 ~ WNF G-10
612700 – 613000 ~ WNF G-10
613000 – 613300 ~ WNF G-10
770000 – 770400 ~ WNF G-10
770900 – 771000 ~ WNF G-10
771000 – 771200 ~ WNF G-10

'Weisse 21' looks to be a Erla built machine. maybe W.Nr. 150 782?

is info from the another source - I looking for all technical information about Bf109G-10 Erla with Werk Nr. serie: 490130-490399.

Here is from Bf109G10 Werk Nr.: 490362:
Technical data plate with Werk Numer as above (mcu - Erla), technical data plate from Gear box , and full subject of exploration Bf109 G-10 which belong to Günter Rabeler from 2./JG3:

Main plate of Bf109 G10:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...8&d=1337193062
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...9&d=1337193062

Gear box plate:
Gerät-Nr.: 9-13005 C-7
Änderungen : 11
Werk Nr.: 11029
Herstelle: bm
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...9&d=1336848355

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...8&d=1336848343

More about ID of Günter Rabeler:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...Rabeler&page=2

Kris

[veltro]

Originally Posted by KrisJG3

Hi Guys,

This :
'' ... -- 490000 – 490800 ~ Erla G-10 - many were fitted with DB 605/AS. ....'

Source: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=27058

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberst
according to Prein:

130000 – 130500 ~ Mtt-Regensburg G-10
150700 – 151000 ~ Erla G-10
151500 – 152000 ~ Erla G-10
490000 – 490800 ~ Erla G-10 - many were fitted with DB 605/AS

Well, that's it.

A quote from a source of the late '80s, when we all were convinced that the presence of DB 605AS would have been the only explaination to the absence of the "chin-bulges" which - we all assumed then - were the trade mark of the DB 605D... (until we years later learned by hard evidence - photographic too - that it was just a cowl and was used on almost all the MTT G-14/ASs simply because it was available). Then we all knew nothing of Erla and the nose redesign they had made, getting rid of such chin by reshaping the whole cowl...

Look, I personally did found three Erla G-10s in the ANR with almost sequential Werke Nummern in the 491 3xx batch, all with DB 605AS, but this do nor did mean the series was standard as such. At all.

The long work of Charles Bavaroise and Jorg Meinke has revealed a lot of what happened at Erla during the G-10 production and statements from old books do nothing to the cause of research than trying to pull clock hands backward, which is, you know, useless.

If you're searching about some G-10s produced by Erla in those batches, good, but please don't try to use old and debunked info to let us believe that "many" of the G-10s produced by Erla "were fitted with DB 605AS" because, simply, it wasn't so.

There are other, much more documented respected colleagues who can expand this concept further, but I just could not let pass this in silence (in this as well in other threads).

Then, do as you like, of course, but at least not having that slipping as a fact, which was (and is) not.

[KrisJG3]

Dear Ferdinando,

I am not expert in this thema so THANKS for information. It will be very nice to me and , I think for other passionats if this post will be continuaed by better informed passionats.
Sorry that I quote in wrong way not fresh information - I do not know about this fact.
Can you inform me about good sources and literature about Bf109 G-10 from ERLA ? I have not acces to good and fresh information so I ask about help.
As I see I have a lot of to learn in this subject of: Bf109 G-10 Erla.
It is very interesting for me to get so more as possible information about aircraft of Günter Rabeler with Werk Numer 490362 (as it is on technical data plate from this aircraft).

One of my collegues try to finish small model of this aircraft so we need more details about serie 490130-490399 especially camuflage and painting.
Technical data will be very useful for describe this machine.

Here is small cover from Bf109 G10 Erla Werk Nr.: 490362:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1128626...36649034436722
Back side has text: LW-3 (?)
https://picasaweb.google.com/1128626...45662479687186

More photos from Bf109G10 Erla:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1128626...CPmqiZXCsta_BA

Best regards,

Kris

PS- I have found this:

http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/techre..._d/as_vs_d.htm

http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/techre..._vs_d/asd2.htm

[veltro]

Kris,

as I said at the start of this thread, we probably started with the wrong foot, but your way to ignore my advice of not using old info which I forwarded to you in this thread http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=27058 which you bypassed by opening a new thread with exactly the same quote, was on border of offense, so to say...

Now it comes to light that you are "not an expert in this thema..." and that you did not know that the info you quoted was not "fresh" info... And what I was writing about, then?

So you are a naive newcomer to this field, if this is the case, welcome aboard. However it is not ignoring info and advices that you can make a long way nor become a respected member of this community. I repeat, i have the strong impression that you started (almost certainly unwillingly) with the wrong foot, maybe not helped in this by language problems (hyronic that an Italian should say so to a German...) which may have worsened things and impressions given.

At any rate, this said, what you are asking for ("...good sources and literature about the Bf 109G-10s from Erla...") isn't a piece of cake.

The first who dealt with the exterior aspect of the late Bf 109s by detailing the different cowls certainly is J-L Mermet, who had at first published privately, then publicly a couple of interesting and meritorious works on the topic.

Also Tomas Poruba gave us some glimpses of his knowledge on the topic in his famous works on the K-4 and AFAIK is currently working on something about the late Gustavs helped by some experts in the field.

Personally I dedicate chapters on such topic in the work on ANR camouflage & markings realized with my colleague G. Valentini.

However, so far, most of the progress on this topic was made through intervention and threads appeared both in this forum and in a couple other ones, such as LEMB and the now (sadly) deceased "109 Lair Board"...

It is however perfectly logic that most of the progress and the info have been and are spread and exchanged through the net, as the new frontier of research is that, added to the higher and higher difficulty in publishing due to economics and small numbers of readers to be reached.

Thus today a researcher (amateur, enthusiast, you name it) has more than some difficulties to have his discoveries printed on paper, which in the end means that you will most probably have the same difficulties to be updated and informed in that way.

In the end, this means that you should have faith in the more respected and acknowledged forums like this and - as well - more trust and respect in the advices given and (if this is not a problem) not being shy in admitting to be a newcomer in a topic. The more humble is the approach, the more rewarding will be the feedback. IMHO at least.

Oh, and a good use of the "search" button could spare you a lot of time and misunderstandings as well.

Don't know if I have been useful to you, maybe not tecnically or historically, I know, but still am of the old school and believe that the human and psycological approach is often the key to new discoveries and a help to the learning curve.

Best of luck for the research.

[KrisJG3]

Dear Ferdinando,

Thank you very much for your answer and good wishes.
(I have not bad intention - Yes I am not expert so I asked about help more advanced).

Best regards,

Kris